Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Just watching an episode of the Sweeney , return train fare London to Durham £11.24p blimey must be years ago .

I just paid £68 london paddington to redruth single. Not sure if that's good or bad? I know a car gets you there cheaper and quicker.

£74 return Paddington to Newport. And part of that journey was on a bus.

Train fares in this country are outrageous.

Fares are comparative to the rest of Europe. Some better, some worse. I think our services may not be as good (running to time) but our train stock is more than equal to many in western Europe.

£29 Paddington to Newport including the bus replacement looks like someone was sat on the drivers lap

LittleMate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:20 am Fares are comparative to the rest of Europe. Some better, some worse. I think our services may not be as good (running to time) but our train stock is more than equal to many in western Europe.

One of the things which gets me is the fluctuation in prices for the same journey if you use trainline.com

One person might pay about £30 for a trip that you have to pay £70+ for because you left it a bit late to get tickets.

Reading to Paddington return is £20 Reading to Bristol Parkway return is £50 same company GWR

The disparity between the difference in distance and the difference in price doesn't add up.

Leaves me to believe they make it up as they go along and is a licence to print money

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:45 am I just paid £68 london paddington to redruth single. Not sure if that's good or bad? I know a car gets you there cheaper and quicker.

So you are getting your car its insurance road tax & its mot for free Thor ?
Now id assume its £5-10 k for a decent 2nd hand car
How much is insurance & tax & how often for an mot.

Seems an awful lot of money for a car for 1 journey to a single place .

It beats me how the tube fares are so high, as the drivers are only on about 60k a year.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:39 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:45 am I just paid £68 london paddington to redruth single. Not sure if that's good or bad? I know a car gets you there cheaper and quicker.

So you are getting your car its insurance road tax & its mot for free Thor ?
Now id assume its £5-10 k for a decent 2nd hand car
How much is insurance & tax & how often for an mot.

Seems an awful lot of money for a car for 1 journey to a single place .

When you factor all those in then it will be more expensive. The point I was trying to make was it would not take a full tank to get there and despite high fuel prices it would be cheaper. It took me 6 hours by train as my connector at plymouth was late from Aberdeen. I can do door to door quicker than that.

I do believe that train or tube fares are far more expensive than other euro countries. The main reason for that is the government passing some of the cost burden to the fare payers for upgrades etc. Subsidies given out previously also add to that cost.

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:45 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:39 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:45 am I just paid £68 london paddington to redruth single. Not sure if that's good or bad? I know a car gets you there cheaper and quicker.

So you are getting your car its insurance road tax & its mot for free Thor ?
Now id assume its £5-10 k for a decent 2nd hand car
How much is insurance & tax & how often for an mot.

Seems an awful lot of money for a car for 1 journey to a single place .

When you factor all those in then it will be more expensive. The point I was trying to make was it would not take a full tank to get there and despite high fuel prices it would be cheaper. It took me 6 hours by train as my connector at plymouth was late from Aberdeen. I can do door to door quicker than that.

I do believe that train or tube fares are far more expensive than other euro countries. The main reason for that is the government passing some of the cost burden to the fare payers for upgrades etc. Subsidies given out previously also add to that cost.

Wrong.

The taxpayers subsidise public transport with BILLIONS of taxpayers pounds. The operators extract excessive dividends to pay voracious short-term minded so called investors.

Investment is not made and even when it is the greedy capitalists have their begging bowls out for more taxpayers money. Socialism for the rich.

Trains need to be priced in such a way as to make it cheaper than the equivalent car journey. If that means commuter journeys have to be free then so be it. But the cars need to come off the roads.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:43 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:45 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:39 pm

So you are getting your car its insurance road tax & its mot for free Thor ?
Now id assume its £5-10 k for a decent 2nd hand car
How much is insurance & tax & how often for an mot.

Seems an awful lot of money for a car for 1 journey to a single place .

When you factor all those in then it will be more expensive. The point I was trying to make was it would not take a full tank to get there and despite high fuel prices it would be cheaper. It took me 6 hours by train as my connector at plymouth was late from Aberdeen. I can do door to door quicker than that.

I do believe that train or tube fares are far more expensive than other euro countries. The main reason for that is the government passing some of the cost burden to the fare payers for upgrades etc. Subsidies given out previously also add to that cost.

Wrong.

The taxpayers subsidise public transport with BILLIONS of taxpayers pounds. The operators extract excessive dividends to pay voracious short-term minded so called investors.

Investment is not made and even when it is the greedy capitalists have their begging bowls out for more taxpayers money. Socialism for the rich.

Trains need to be priced in such a way as to make it cheaper than the equivalent car journey. If that means commuter journeys have to be free then so be it. But the cars need to come off the roads.

Dont forget that all profits made for these foreign owned train companies are usually taken by there foreign owners.

Its almost like Thor would want them Nationalised or something . Maybe to make them run more cost effectively & profitable , which in turn could be reinvested in the uk.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:52 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:43 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:45 pm

When you factor all those in then it will be more expensive. The point I was trying to make was it would not take a full tank to get there and despite high fuel prices it would be cheaper. It took me 6 hours by train as my connector at plymouth was late from Aberdeen. I can do door to door quicker than that.

I do believe that train or tube fares are far more expensive than other euro countries. The main reason for that is the government passing some of the cost burden to the fare payers for upgrades etc. Subsidies given out previously also add to that cost.

Wrong.

The taxpayers subsidise public transport with BILLIONS of taxpayers pounds. The operators extract excessive dividends to pay voracious short-term minded so called investors.

Investment is not made and even when it is the greedy capitalists have their begging bowls out for more taxpayers money. Socialism for the rich.

Trains need to be priced in such a way as to make it cheaper than the equivalent car journey. If that means commuter journeys have to be free then so be it. But the cars need to come off the roads.

Dont forget that all profits made for these foreign owned train companies are usually taken by there foreign owners.

Its almost like Thor would want them Nationalised or something . Maybe to make them run more cost effectively & profitable , which in turn could be reinvested in the uk.

Thank you to Tufty for his Blue Labour xenophobic point.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:55 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:52 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:43 pm

Wrong.

The taxpayers subsidise public transport with BILLIONS of taxpayers pounds. The operators extract excessive dividends to pay voracious short-term minded so called investors.

Investment is not made and even when it is the greedy capitalists have their begging bowls out for more taxpayers money. Socialism for the rich.

Trains need to be priced in such a way as to make it cheaper than the equivalent car journey. If that means commuter journeys have to be free then so be it. But the cars need to come off the roads.

Dont forget that all profits made for these foreign owned train companies are usually taken by there foreign owners.

Its almost like Thor would want them Nationalised or something . Maybe to make them run more cost effectively & profitable , which in turn could be reinvested in the uk.

Thank you to Tufty for his Blue Labour xenophobic point.

My Blue Labour Xenophobic point ?

I was trying to make a point that Thor was leaning towards a Corbyn belief.

Better explained here i think

I see the annual increase in train fares is due on Jan 2 by 2.7%

Can anyone remind me again, how profitable and reliable the railways were under British Rail in the 1980s before privatisation?

spen666 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:20 pm Can anyone remind me again, how profitable and reliable the railways were under British Rail in the 1980s before privatisation?

Irrelevant.

Are you using this whataboutery defence to endorse the current shambles?

It was a service that should never have been nationalised.

The fact that it was was driven by ideology promoted by the city who saw so many opportunities to gouge profits from contracts, transactions, advice, assets etc and then to walk away because they knew it was unworkable without MASSIVE amounts of free taxpayers money.

It was a shameful act of the Major led Tory government.

The Government doesn't understand the complexity of the railways,that's why they cocked it up.

I'm generally pro privatisation, but the train system is a basket case (as would the NHS be IMO). It would be best served back in the hands of government - but with set rules so neither neglect or consistent overspending can set in.

It is so obviously NOT a suitable industry for "market forces" to run. If there were to be a truly competitive "market", then all competing companies would have their own lines, stations, trains etc, and would be competing with each other to get you from A to B. As it is, it's just a "market" being crow-barred onto the rail system for ideological purposes.

The same goes for the utilities - again, they're not a proper "market" (they'd have to run their own cables/pipes/lines to your house) - the so called power companies are just billing organisations. Again, it's just a false "market" imposed on services and utilities that absolutely should be run by and for the country.

I try to use the train when I come down to London for environmental reasons as much as anything, but when I came down for the Bradford game, the best price I could find to get back to Scotland by train was over £80 - the flight from Stansted was £39, so I flew. Sorry, planet, but our stupid country makes it hard for people to do the right thing.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:46 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:20 pm Can anyone remind me again, how profitable and reliable the railways were under British Rail in the 1980s before privatisation?

Irrelevant.

Are you using this whataboutery defence to endorse the current shambles?

It was a service that should never have been nationalised.

The fact that it was was driven by ideology promoted by the city who saw so many opportunities to gouge profits from contracts, transactions, advice, assets etc and then to walk away because they knew it was unworkable without MASSIVE amounts of free taxpayers money.

It was a shameful act of the Major led Tory government.

Lots of words to say you are not able to show how profitable or reliable railways were pre privatisation.

The railways were a basket case pre privatisation. Let's not forget the fact.

Who would want to go back to that simply o satisfy your socialist ideology

It's not going to benefit rail users to have an unprofitable unreliable railway that lacks leadership or Investment


A reliable railway is more important than the identity of the owner

Wallsall only 18 quid return tomorrow.............cheaper and quicker than the coach

spen666 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:14 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:46 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:20 pm Can anyone remind me again, how profitable and reliable the railways were under British Rail in the 1980s before privatisation?

Irrelevant.

Are you using this whataboutery defence to endorse the current shambles?

It was a service that should never have been nationalised.

The fact that it was was driven by ideology promoted by the city who saw so many opportunities to gouge profits from contracts, transactions, advice, assets etc and then to walk away because they knew it was unworkable without MASSIVE amounts of free taxpayers money.

It was a shameful act of the Major led Tory government.

Lots of words to say you are not able to show how profitable or reliable railways were pre privatisation.

The railways were a basket case pre privatisation. Let's not forget the fact.

Who would want to go back to that simply o satisfy your socialist ideology

It's not going to benefit rail users to have an unprofitable unreliable railway that lacks leadership or Investment


A reliable railway is more important than the identity of the owner

At the risk of being banned until the end of the year, why don't you Feck right off you boring, smug, pedantic arsewipe. Everyone on this board thinks you're a complete tw*t and we want you to do one, bugger off, disappear up your own bumhole, basically FRO bollock chops!

Happy New Year!

LittleMate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:59 pm I'm generally pro privatisation, but the train system is a basket case (as would the NHS be IMO). It would be best served back in the hands of government - but with set rules so neither neglect or consistent overspending can set in.

No,dont give it to the Government,they couldn't run a bath.

Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:50 am

LittleMate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:59 pm I'm generally pro privatisation, but the train system is a basket case (as would the NHS be IMO). It would be best served back in the hands of government - but with set rules so neither neglect or consistent overspending can set in.

No,dont give it to the Government,they couldn't run a bath.

Nationalise it and gut out the bureaucrats, executives and other hangers on and then let the workers in the industry run it.