Independent Leyton Orient Forum

He had the pre season, and the players look so unfit, they can't compete for 90 minutes. Surely he should know the fitness program they should have done and at least got them fit to play, even if he got it tactically wrong.

Should a football coach be expected to know fitness programs in detail or is that down to the fitness expert that most clubs have?

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:13 pm Should a football coach be expected to know fitness programs in detail or is that down to the fitness expert that most clubs have?

Fletcher seemed to think they were unfit.

claptonCasual wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:20 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:13 pm Should a football coach be expected to know fitness programs in detail or is that down to the fitness expert that most clubs have?

Fletcher seemed to think they were unfit.

And he was only here for 5 minutes.

New fitness guy came here in the summer, didn't he?

It's been clear for a while that fitness is an issue this season, when it absolutely wasn't last. I have no idea what happened to the previous guy and why he's been replaced?

Oh.

https://www.leytonorient.com/2019/07/03 ... r-arrives/

Is it his cousin or something?

Another mate of ML.

claptonCasual wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:20 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:13 pm Should a football coach be expected to know fitness programs in detail or is that down to the fitness expert that most clubs have?

Fletcher seemed to think they were unfit.

And so do a lot of other non footballing experts but I repeat; is it the football coach or fitness coach that is responsible for getting players fit?

Oh dear, this is all too pally, pally & cliquey for my liking, but I guess most managers surround themselves with people they know. The only difference being, elsewhere, when the manager gets the chop, the staff usually go as well ..... we all know that isn't the case here and probably never will be under these owners.

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:51 pm

claptonCasual wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:20 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:13 pm Should a football coach be expected to know fitness programs in detail or is that down to the fitness expert that most clubs have?

Fletcher seemed to think they were unfit.

And so do a lot of other non footballing experts but I repeat; is it the football coach or fitness coach that is responsible for getting players fit?

Both.

Like I said before there is a load of data available to people now, you'd expect people to work as a team. Most managers were players and operated fitness regimes at other clubs, it is not unreasonable to expect them to know what fitness is being trained, and why.

If the manager isn't happy with the fitness it's within his right to get the fitness coaches to do different things, or if he can't get a result out of that, employ a better coach.

Given that we didn't have a problem with fitness last season, I don't think it is the players.

Ultimately the buck stops with the manager, similar if how we don't hit revenue figures it would seem a bit stupid for Macklin to blame the salespeople he recruited and told what to do.

Given that we didn't have a problem with fitness last season, I don't think it is the players.


But the players should know that they are not as fit as they were previously so why do they not raise it? Or do they prefer an easy life?

At this level it's the regime, not the players.

Maybe they don't.... the sports bras tracking things data might not be shown to them so they can't game the system.

Either way fitness isn't everything. You can be as fit as you like, if the tactics aren't correct, all the fitness in the world is not going to buy them better positions.

Like I said, I don't believe it is fitness. The first half table in the League has us now in 23rd place (Grimsby have a point less but three games in hand). But based on the second half, we are 3rd.... that isn't the sign of a team wilting due to bad fitness as games go on.

Sure, you can point to individual players looking knackered when we concede goals, I do believe this is more down to bad tactics resulting in poor positioning rather than not having the fitness to get there.

Ling worked with our latest fitness coach along with Embleton at Swindon Town FC, now why does that not surprise me.

Osal wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:01 pm Oh dear, this is all too pally, pally & cliquey for my liking, but I guess most managers surround themselves with people they know. The only difference being, elsewhere, when the manager gets the chop, the staff usually go as well ..... we all know that isn't the case here and probably never will be under these owners.

''this is all too pally, pally & cliquey for my liking''
The Swindon Town connection once again !

I've no idea if we are fit or not as a team. More important for me is that we have no intensity in our movement. We don't transition the ball quickly enough to really hurt teams, apart from when Brophy runs it. Look at Dennis and JMD, their first touch is almost always back to where it came from. Wright and to a lesser extent Clay take too many touches and slow our play down.

As someone above has said, we have picked up quite a few points late in games, and our second half showing on Saturday would suggest that we are okay in this regard.

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:09 pm Given that we didn't have a problem with fitness last season, I don't think it is the players.

or the bloke who was in charge of fitness last season (who was also one of the tiny handful of staff who stuck with LOFC even when Beelzebub wasn't paying anyone's salaries).

Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:30 pm Ling worked with our latest fitness coach along with Embleton at Swindon Town FC, now why does that not surprise me.

@Chicken Dhansak
Seems like Ling has a preference to appointing people he has worked with before.
As to the question on this link ''Is RE really a good coach?''
Well tactically wise and based on results so far, does not seem to be making much of an impact as a stand in manager.
As to how good a coach he is, without being able to see him work first hand, cannot comment either way on on that one.
Lastly, players seem rather unfit this season in comparison to the opposition and vast improvements need from somewhere if we are to start to move up in the League, so things are going wrong somewhere in the setup.

No real idea. But obviously not poor.

I find it amazing that people make the Swindon/managerial connection a thing. It's done with all managers at all professional levels. It's why Campbell and Adams wanted their own teams; its why Pochettino's entire staff left and Mourinho's all joined (pulling most of them from Lille).

The reason we look less fit than last year is that we are playing against better technical players than last year and every single one of them is a full time pro. How many times last season did we work at our pace and then after 60-65 minutes watch the opposition wilt? This year we are having to work harder off the ball and it takes away energy from our efforts on the ball.

“A brilliant coach“ according to Martin Ling in the Outlook Podcast interview marathon.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:24 pm

claptonCasual wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:20 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:13 pm Should a football coach be expected to know fitness programs in detail or is that down to the fitness expert that most clubs have?

Fletcher seemed to think they were unfit.

And he was only here for 5 minutes.

And fans picked up on it very quickly.

LittleMate wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:10 pm I find it amazing that people make the Swindon/managerial connection a thing. It's done with all managers at all professional levels. It's why Campbell and Adams wanted their own teams; its why Pochettino's entire staff left and Mourinho's all joined (pulling most of them from Lille).

The reason we look less fit than last year is that we are playing against better technical players than last year and every single one of them is a full time pro. How many times last season did we work at our pace and then after 60-65 minutes watch the opposition wilt? This year we are having to work harder off the ball and it takes away energy from our efforts on the ball.

Working off the ball stuff is a fair point. I was surprised to see the tempo Cheltenham played at. Fitter and quicker. Ross can perhaps be forgiven for not knowing that, but Jobi surely knows about fitness and tempo in the EFL.

But a little slack needs to be given here at the start of the season. But why are we still off the pace now? Several months in I would have thought that was the easiest aspect of our squad to work on. A real worry as the heavy pitches season is upon us.

It frankly just not good enough and it’s been said Fletcher picked up on that quickly, his extra training being criticised on Phoenix FM. For all his alledged lackings he may not have fit the club culture but he saw a lack of fit in the club.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:53 pm

LittleMate wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:10 pm I find it amazing that people make the Swindon/managerial connection a thing. It's done with all managers at all professional levels. It's why Campbell and Adams wanted their own teams; its why Pochettino's entire staff left and Mourinho's all joined (pulling most of them from Lille).

The reason we look less fit than last year is that we are playing against better technical players than last year and every single one of them is a full time pro. How many times last season did we work at our pace and then after 60-65 minutes watch the opposition wilt? This year we are having to work harder off the ball and it takes away energy from our efforts on the ball.

Working off the ball stuff is a fair point. I was surprised to see the tempo Cheltenham played at. Fitter and quicker. Ross can perhaps be forgiven for not knowing that, but Jobi surely knows about fitness and tempo in the EFL.

But a little slack needs to be given here at the start of the season. But why are we still off the pace now? Several months in I would have thought that was the easiest aspect of our squad to work on. A real worry as the heavy pitches season is upon us.

It frankly just not good enough and it’s been said Fletcher picked up on that quickly, his extra training being criticised on Phoenix FM. For all his alledged lackings he may not have fit the club culture but he saw a lack of fit in the club.

And by all accounts lack of ability in certain areas.