Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:00 pm**

Now that the dust has setttled(ish), I’ve taken some time to reflect on Fletch’s fleeting tenure as LOFC manager.

Whilst I wasn’t too upset that he was given the boot, I do feel a little bit sorry for him. Here’s why:

1. Coming into a set up with pre-existing cliques and a shared culture is hard enough (in any job), made even harder by the fact that he wasn’t allowed to bring in any allies. The existing group are very much still “Justin’s” team. This was always going to be a difficult hurdle to jump which Fletcher stumbled on quicker than most expected.

2. He had no viable striker options, hence lack of goals. With Angol and Wilkinson out all he had to work with was Harold (a 35 year old whose main role last season was to pull 15 minute cameos to see out games, in the conference) and Alabi (a bloke who managed a grand total of 2 goals last season. In the conference).

3. He got absolutely battered for being bad at giving interviews. Sure, he’s manner didn’t exude confidence but fans (on here and other social media platforms) really did hammer him for lacklustre interviews very early on. Thought this was a bit harsh.

4. He’s credibility, and thus future career, as a manager must now be shattered. Who is going to hire him now? Can’t be nice for the bloke knowing that clubs won’t touch him with a barge pole for foreseeable future. Can’t be a nice feeling.

5. The FA Cup killed him. I honestly believe that the loss against Maldon & Tiptree was an instant dismissal offence. Off the back of a dreadful start to his time as manager that game was the nail in his coffin. Had that weekend been a league game which we lost I think that he would have been given more time. So he was a bit unlucky with the fixture list. Especially as I’m convinced that by the time that game came around he’d already lost the dressing room and had players on the pitch who weren’t too fussed about losing in the 1st round of the cup. Having said that, even with the deficiencies in the squad that was an unforgivable loss.

I suspect that the club will stick with Ross and the current set-up until the end of the season. Realistically, talk of back-to-back promotions, or even a top half finish should be parked for now.

The target for this season is simple. Stay up. Then we build. The conference winning squad will be broken up and we’ll go into the 20/21 season having recovered from the devastating loss of Justin, ready to charge onwards.

There will be plenty of cr*p results and poor performances before the season is over, but I’m confident that this squad has the legs to stumble over the line and keep us up.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:05 pm**

Yet another boring thread for the moany F*cks to whinge about
LOFC .

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:11 pm**

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:05 pm Yet another boring thread for the moany F*cks to whinge about
LOFC .

Assuming you’re including yourself in that category seeing as you’ve just had a moan.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:20 pm**

Huxley wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:00 pm There will be plenty of cr*p results and poor performances before the season is over, but I’m confident that this squad has the legs to stumble over the line and keep us up.

Hardly a ringing endorsement of CF’s likely successor!

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:41 pm**

Huxley wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:00 pm Now that the dust has setttled(ish), I’ve taken some time to reflect on Fletch’s fleeting tenure as LOFC manager.

Whilst I wasn’t too upset that he was given the boot, I do feel a little bit sorry for him. Here’s why:

1. Coming into a set up with pre-existing cliques and a shared culture is hard enough (in any job), made even harder by the fact that he wasn’t allowed to bring in any allies. The existing group are very much still “Justin’s” team. This was always going to be a difficult hurdle to jump which Fletcher stumbled on quicker than most expected.

2. He had no viable striker options, hence lack of goals. With Angol and Wilkinson out all he had to work with was Harold (a 35 year old whose main role last season was to pull 15 minute cameos to see out games, in the conference) and Alabi (a bloke who managed a grand total of 2 goals last season. In the conference).

3. He got absolutely battered for being bad at giving interviews. Sure, he’s manner didn’t exude confidence but fans (on here and other social media platforms) really did hammer him for lacklustre interviews very early on. Thought this was a bit harsh.

4. He’s credibility, and thus future career, as a manager must now be shattered. Who is going to hire him now? Can’t be nice for the bloke knowing that clubs won’t touch him with a barge pole for foreseeable future. Can’t be a nice feeling.

5. The FA Cup killed him. I honestly believe that the loss against Maldon & Tiptree was an instant dismissal offence. Off the back of a dreadful start to his time as manager that game was the nail in his coffin. Had that weekend been a league game which we lost I think that he would have been given more time. So he was a bit unlucky with the fixture list. Especially as I’m convinced that by the time that game came around he’d already lost the dressing room and had players on the pitch who weren’t too fussed about losing in the 1st round of the cup. Having said that, even with the deficiencies in the squad that was an unforgivable loss.

I suspect that the club will stick with Ross and the current set-up until the end of the season. Realistically, talk of back-to-back promotions, or even a top half finish should be parked for now.

The target for this season is simple. Stay up. Then we build. The conference winning squad will be broken up and we’ll go into the 20/21 season having recovered from the devastating loss of Justin, ready to charge onwards.

There will be plenty of cr*p results and poor performances before the season is over, but I’m confident that this squad has the legs to stumble over the line and keep us up.

Of course it’s tough starting a new job, but let’s face it in football it’s a regular occurrence. Justin’s man Ross was not sacked but resigned from the job because he didn’t want it. Everyone knows a new manager is coming in and I doubt players had any preconceived objections. Why would they. I dare say many have played under numerous managers.

Viable striker options. The team had scored 11 goals in the preceding 4 league games. With the exception of Wilkinson who got 2. The other scorers of 9 goals were available,to him.

The quality of his interviews would have mattered a lot less had results been better. He too over an inform team, scoring goals and winning and created dross and some poor, poor results. Not unreasonable for fans to be interested in his views and more importantly actions.

But for all of that I do have some sympathy, more to do with the process that allowed him to be offered the job in the first place. I hope he bounces back.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:51 pm**

Totally agree Huxley & as for you tuffers DO ONE.

Redintheface what do you expect Ross & the players pull rank over Fletcher with their closed shop we don't want change attitude, just incase one of them got dropped or even moved on because their only National league standard. didums
It's about the club moving forward & us supporters wanting a successful team not just a team with just a make do attitude.
The first half against Carlisle was good to watch & the best half of football this season, just because the players aren't fit enough & didn't quite fancy that style because they would have to train harder they decided not to play for him.
Feel for the man.
Employ Piers Morgan next time then if you want someone to do good interviews.
How pathetic that realy is.
Poor sod.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:57 pm**

Do we know Ross pulled rank over him?

Ross seems like a really genuine guy.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:18 pm**

Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:57 pm Do we know Ross pulled rank over him?

Ross seems like a really genuine guy.

Ross said as much in an interview. The coaching setup didn't like an outsider coming in giving his ideas.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:20 pm**

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:57 pm Do we know Ross pulled rank over him?

Ross seems like a really genuine guy.
Ross said as much in an interview. The coaching setup didn't like an outsider coming in giving his ideas.

Not too surprised but at least Ross was honest.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:20 pm**

North Stand Dave wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:51 pm Totally agree Huxley & as for you tuffers DO ONE.

Redintheface what do you expect Ross & the players pull rank over Fletcher with their closed shop we don't want change attitude, just incase one of them got dropped or even moved on because their only National league standard. didums
It's about the club moving forward & us supporters wanting a successful team not just a team with just a make do attitude.
The first half against Carlisle was good to watch & the best half of football this season, just because the players aren't fit enough & didn't quite fancy that style because they would have to train harder they decided not to play for him.
Feel for the man.
Employ Piers Morgan next time then if you want someone to do good interviews.
How pathetic that realy is.
Poor sod.

Spot on

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:20 pm**

Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:20 pm
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:57 pm Do we know Ross pulled rank over him?

Ross seems like a really genuine guy.
Ross said as much in an interview. The coaching setup didn't like an outsider coming in giving his ideas.
Not too surprised but at least Ross was honest.

Doesn't make for good reading for the next bloke that comes in and has to work with them

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:35 pm**

Honest, Yes but no good if want to progress as a team & a club as they'll now just all stick together & do the same to the next bloke, that's if anyone will actually be interested if they know what went on this time around.
Bottom line some of our players are not good enough to get us out of this division, secondly as we see each week look unfit & thirdly some of the players get picked every game regardless of their form or lack of because Ross has his favourites.
That's certainly not ideal & reason for any optimism for the future.
Obviously I want Ross & the team to succed but if Ross just keeps picking his favourites some of the outsiders will end up leaving anyway.
Unfortunately it might take failure or lack of positive results before T & T realise having Ross & his gang at the club isn't working so they look for another Fletcher. But How long?

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:38 pm**

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:57 pm Do we know Ross pulled rank over him?

Ross seems like a really genuine guy.
Ross said as much in an interview. The coaching setup didn't like an outsider coming in giving his ideas.

Exactly what did he say?

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:57 pm**

North Stand Dave wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:51 pm Totally agree Huxley & as for you tuffers DO ONE.

Redintheface what do you expect Ross & the players pull rank over Fletcher with their closed shop we don't want change attitude, just incase one of them got dropped or even moved on because their only National league standard. didums
It's about the club moving forward & us supporters wanting a successful team not just a team with just a make do attitude.
The first half against Carlisle was good to watch & the best half of football this season, just because the players aren't fit enough & didn't quite fancy that style because they would have to train harder they decided not to play for him.
Feel for the man.
Employ Piers Morgan next time then if you want someone to do good interviews.
How pathetic that realy is.
Poor sod.

Think you’ve misinterpreted my comment NSD. I agree entirely with your concerns over the insular “ closed shop “ sort of mindset that seems to have prevailed in this case.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:53 pm**

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:38 pm
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:57 pm Do we know Ross pulled rank over him?

Ross seems like a really genuine guy.
Ross said as much in an interview. The coaching setup didn't like an outsider coming in giving his ideas.
Exactly what did he say?

Did Fletcher stand a chance? “The toughest thing was for [Fletcher] to come in and try to embrace that culture,” Embleton, 38, said. “He had intentions and a direction about how he wanted to work and it was almost like he wanted to get to that before embracing the culture. Sometimes those relationships with the players and the staff might need to be built first, and then you can drip feed your football [ideas] in from there.”

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:59 pm**

Overall no one comes out well from this debacle, all parties made some really rookie errors you'd expect better from seasoned professionals...

Fletcher... must've watched some of his older interviews back and thought to mature past the aloof wideboy image he was presenting. Had some of the right ideas it appears but went for too much too soon.

Coaching staff... seem to have immediately gone against CF and in Embleton's case (based on what Ling said since) seems to have had delayed regret at standing down then couldn't handle being given orders.

Players... at least some of them have been rumoured to have fallen out with Fletcher over his methods and seemed not to be putting the graft in. They didn't improve much under Embleton either the other day so make of thay what you will.

Ling / Porter... in his own words Long says the process was the same, hmmm interesting as Porter says it was different in that they actively didn't want to consider experienced / multiple previous clubs / high win rate managers. Neither of them thought to see how the chosen candidate would react around the existing staff either.

The club was crying out for a people person with experience to settle everyone down, get they went for a technical coach type with what they now quote as not having skills to deal with people... doh!

Fletcher appears to not be wrong about the fitness levels and lack of pressing so he can feel hard done by for trying to address it. Does seem the "culture" has got far too comfortable for certain players and staff and we're seeing the effects of that on pitch. Collective kick up the backside required but can't see who is going to administer that as it's getting a bit too much of a pally closed shop, especially with Embleton all but confirmed until end of the season.

Edit: just been shown this... that's one kick up the backside delivered bang on cue...

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:09 pm**

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:57 pm Do we know Ross pulled rank over him?

Ross seems like a really genuine guy.
Ross said as much in an interview. The coaching setup didn't like an outsider coming in giving his ideas.

I don’t think it would have been Ross stirring up the existing coaching team against CF. Just a feeling I have.

Ps ageee entirely with original post.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:15 pm**

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:09 pm
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:57 pm Do we know Ross pulled rank over him?

Ross seems like a really genuine guy.
Ross said as much in an interview. The coaching setup didn't like an outsider coming in giving his ideas.
I don’t think it would have been Ross stirring up the existing coaching team against CF. Just a feeling I have.

Ps ageee entirely with original post.

''The coaching setup didn't like an outsider coming in giving his ideas.''
In other words....'' we'll do it our way'' !!

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:15 pm**

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:09 pm
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:57 pm Do we know Ross pulled rank over him?

Ross seems like a really genuine guy.
Ross said as much in an interview. The coaching setup didn't like an outsider coming in giving his ideas.
I don’t think it would have been Ross stirring up the existing coaching team against CF. Just a feeling I have.

Ps ageee entirely with original post.

I don’t think he’s masterminded a coup but it’s clear that the whole team weren’t on board

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:23 pm**

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:20 pm
Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:20 pm
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Ross said as much in an interview. The coaching setup didn't like an outsider coming in giving his ideas.
Not too surprised but at least Ross was honest.
Doesn't make for good reading for the next bloke that comes in and has to work with them

If that Ross pulling rank shenanigans is true then it's a problem. I suspect he was a bit gutted we won 3 games after he decided to stand down. But we can't have a ragbag of insurrectionists calling the shots.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:29 pm**

After reading Kent's post above theres gonna be some arses kicked when he gets here.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:11 pm**

Why would anybody have Sympathy for a fella in a cushy job , who decides to throw his hat in tje ring for a High pressure roke as a League manager.

Cant stand the heat ,
Dont go into the kitchen
In the 1st place.
F*ck getting out of it.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:26 pm**

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:11 pm Why would anybody have Sympathy for a fella in a cushy job , who decides to throw his hat in tje ring for a High pressure roke as a League manager.

Cant stand the heat ,
Dont go into the kitchen
In the 1st place.
F*ck getting out of it.

You could argue he could stand the heat and wanted a few chefs given the boot instead given he didn't rate their cooking.

(how far can we take this analogy?)

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:29 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:26 pm
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:11 pm Why would anybody have Sympathy for a fella in a cushy job , who decides to throw his hat in tje ring for a High pressure roke as a League manager.

Cant stand the heat ,
Dont go into the kitchen
In the 1st place.
F*ck getting out of it.
You could argue he could stand the heat and wanted a few chefs given the boot instead given he didn't rate their cooking.

(how far can we take this analogy?)

All the way to the table. Tuffty knows his onions.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:47 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:26 pm
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:11 pm Why would anybody have Sympathy for a fella in a cushy job , who decides to throw his hat in tje ring for a High pressure roke as a League manager.

Cant stand the heat ,
Dont go into the kitchen
In the 1st place.
F*ck getting out of it.
You could argue he could stand the heat and wanted a few chefs given the boot instead given he didn't rate their cooking.

(how far can we take this analogy?)

4-0 plymouth 2-1 maldon & tiptree

Why do you think Carl ?

If we all knew that we'd be millionaires wouldnt we.

If ya wanna go in the kitchen, you got to at least know how to cook !

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