Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Club is hoping that Ross can move the club forwards & learn from his spell earlier in the season

An outsider giving instructions? He’s the f*cking manager and you’re HIS coaches.

Agree but it seems they are in control

This has Similarities with brexit. I voted stay but I don’t like the imputation that the majority vote should be overturned because they didn’t know what they were doing. I would now vote leave.
With regards to fletcher I wanted him out simply because I couldn’t understand how we could appoint a loan manager. I didn’t want him in the first place, however it now emerges that having appointed him he was not allowed to manage as he saw fit.
Sorry, I’ve changed my mind again. The fault lays elsewhere. Apologies mr fletcher.

If Flecther did want to do things, he needed to bring it in over time, not just hit a sledgehammer day one, anyone with a brain could've told him that. He wasn't over night going to turn training, tactics and everything else on it's head, it isn't football manager or fifa.

So what you are all saying is Fletcher was great and our staff and player are to blame?

Redcard wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:37 pm This has Similarities with brexit. I voted stay but I don’t like the imputation that the majority vote should be overturned because they didn’t know what they were doing. I would now vote leave.
With regards to fletcher I wanted him out simply because I couldn’t understand how we could appoint a loan manager. I didn’t want him in the first place, however it now emerges that having appointed him he was not allowed to manage as he saw fit.
Sorry, I’ve changed my mind again. The fault lays elsewhere. Apologies mr fletcher.

So you voted against Brexit, presumably because you thought it was a bad idea, and because it might not happen (even though it almost certainly will) you'd vote for it, if you were asked again... ...For the thing that you think is a bad idea... ...Well, that's rational.

It’s perfectly rational that I respect the view of the majority of people who won the day.

Essex football, it’s obvious that he didn’t try to implement all his ideas overnight, the transfer window being closed ensured that. What he did was to present the board with a list of players he wanted to replace and this was not acceptable, in Teagues own words he was shocked.

That Q and A is unbelievable, it's all about money. f*** whether the man is right for the job or not, they're going after unattached managers on low wages. See you soon National League. Ling's attitude towards the supporters there is appalling.

Sorry, but there is a distinct lack of dignity here, a character assassination of someone who doesn’t have the opportunity of defending himself. It’s plain to see that fletcher wasn’t going to put up with the mediocrity that’s there for everyone to see, and the players and staff were threatened. It’s obvious that we will now plod along with the in house managers/ coaches , players in the hope that there is one team worse than us in this division.

Fletcher maybe wanted to change too much too soon?

So he paid the price.

When premiership culture meets lower league .

A young 1st time managers experience

aylesburyos wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:05 pm Players could not cope with training under CF so some of them rebelled. Wanted to bin 7 players in January. CF wanted to play a pressing gme as per Carlisle 1st half but players not fit enough. Existing coaches did not buy into his methods & did not like an outsider giving instructions.

True or not i do not know but I was told this info

I was told something very similar. Very disappointing all round if it is true and no one involved emerges with a great deal of credit imho. Doesn’t present a great picture for any possible future HC applicants if they are walking into a “ closed shop “ set up.

essexfootball wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:41 pm If Flecther did want to do things, he needed to bring it in over time, not just hit a sledgehammer day one, anyone with a brain could've told him that. He wasn't over night going to turn training, tactics and everything else on it's head, it isn't football manager or fifa.

Absolutely spot on.

Whilst I lacked the confidence in fletch if he had approached it in a more sensible way and effected change over a period of time then he might have stood a chance.

Firstly get the players fit to the level he wanted. It was clear he wanted a high tempo fast pressing style and the first half against Carlisle was the best we had played all season, no doubt about it, but like I said after the game we were not fit enough to carry that on for 90 mins. Work on the fitness first, then apply the tempo, high press as the fitness improves. Slowly and surely you tweet the shape, tactics and general play as that fitness improves getting the buy in from the coaches to start with and then the players.

My thinking is he never got the coaches to buy in to his vision nor the players and everything had to change on day 1 the only way that would have worked is that if it had been preseason.

This is a disgrace if true. I hope fletcher comes out and says his bit when the money we owe him is safely in the bank. It made no sense when Ling was not talking about the results but the ethos of the club etc. That was just code word for we have a cushy little life here sunny Jim and we don’t want outsiders telling us what to do and god forbid improve the team. I hope I am wrong but I don’t think so.

Any rumours about the Teddy Sheringham story?

Beradogs wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:20 am This is a disgrace if true. I hope fletcher comes out and says his bit when the money we owe him is safely in the bank. It made no sense when Ling was not talking about the results but the ethos of the club etc. That was just code word for we have a cushy little life here sunny Jim and we don’t want outsiders telling us what to do and god forbid improve the team. I hope I am wrong but I don’t think so.

The mythical process.

I found it quite telling that Ling dismissed most of the people mentioned in that Q&A because they didn't apply for the job. It just proves, he did nothing during the first interim period to come up with a few names he thought would be perfect for the job and then approach them.

Also, he dismissed Daryl McMahon and said he's had less games in the league than Carl Fletcher (even though he's managing now, rather than years ago) but one of the criteria for the role was someone no clubs on the CV. They're making this crap up as they go along. It's all about the cheapest option and hope for the best.

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:19 am

essexfootball wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:41 pm If Flecther did want to do things, he needed to bring it in over time, not just hit a sledgehammer day one, anyone with a brain could've told him that. He wasn't over night going to turn training, tactics and everything else on it's head, it isn't football manager or fifa.

Absolutely spot on.

Whilst I lacked the confidence in fletch if he had approached it in a more sensible way and effected change over a period of time then he might have stood a chance.

Firstly get the players fit to the level he wanted. It was clear he wanted a high tempo fast pressing style and the first half against Carlisle was the best we had played all season, no doubt about it, but like I said after the game we were not fit enough to carry that on for 90 mins. Work on the fitness first, then apply the tempo, high press as the fitness improves. Slowly and surely you tweet the shape, tactics and general play as that fitness improves getting the buy in from the coaches to start with and then the players.

My thinking is he never got the coaches to buy in to his vision nor the players and everything had to change on day 1 the only way that would have worked is that if it had been preseason.

Absolutely spot on.

You can feel sorry for Fletch or angry at the board but, for me, Fletcher is the architect of his own misfortune.

Ling sounds like a man who was there against his wishes. There are several worrying aspects there: he wants a break so won't be reopening the search any time soon, they believe the best manager lies inside the club, Paul Tisdale ain't gonna be coming because he is going to ask for too much money.

Derek Adams might have come but his references were bad. What do references mean in football really? Most managers are polarising with people and have people that dislike them, even the top ones. Let's say a really good board exist at another club, they interview Carl Fletcher. Supposedly he is a brilliant coach, but they call up Ross and Danny for a reference... of course it's gonna be bad.

The players must have sensed his job was doubtful even early on and downed tools and played him out of the job by getting beat against Maldon, in a similar way to that Ross lost the consideration first time around when we lost 3-0 at Torquay. I don't doubt the same will happen again in future, the wife thing I don't think was an aspect in his stepping down as much as the rancid performances. We won the next 3 after we knew he was not gonna be the manager.

The problem isn't really Fletcher but the structure we have. The club don't want fresh thinking, they want a surrogate Justin, a man who can pretend to be him through his behaviours.

Any new manager has to get the staff on board. A sledgehammer approach is always going to cause resentment. Although there has to be a time limit for success to be achieved a good manager will integrate with the staff before improving the situation

Fletcher had the players running for hours on the Friday before the Carlisle match, quelle suprise they ran out of steam 2nd half. Fletcher I think had read that infamous parody 'How To Lose Friends & Alienate People'.
I think most of us know that unfortunately a few players are not making the required step up and will obviously not have their contracts renewed.
Everything is budgeted at the club, they won't be relegated, but any changes to staff will have to fall in with their budget and costings projections.
Us lot have to sit tight and mostly wait til June when many contracts will be up.