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Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:32 am
by BiggsyMalone
https://www.leytonorient.com/2019/10/14 ... -reporter/
After someone to work for free and won’t even pay for travel to home games and will ‘look to provide travel’ for away a games. It’s not as if the students they’re looking for aren’t struggling financially already.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:37 am
by Ronnie Hotdogs
#ourclub
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:49 am
by Long slender neck
Would like to know how this sort of thing can be justified when player wages must be the main expenditure by far.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:53 am
by spen666
I thought these "internships" for no salary had been outlawed.
Even if not, this does not reflect well on the club.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:56 am
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
So the club is offering a student the chance to develop their career and add a relevant post to their CV. What’s wrong in that for a community club.
If people don’t want to do it they dont have to, no big deal. I’m sure the club could manage without someone.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:57 am
by Red_Army
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:56 am
So the club is offering a student the chance to develop their career and add a relevant post to their CV. What’s wrong in that for a community club.
If people don’t want to do it they dont have to, no big deal. I’m sure the club could manage without someone.
You're on fire this morning.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:59 am
by Proposition Joe
If it's a job that needs doing, pay whoever is doing it a wage. No ifs, no buts.
Also no surprise to see President Business expecting someone to benefit from free labour.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:02 pm
by Smendrick Feaselberg
This is really really poor.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:06 pm
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:59 am
If it's a job that needs doing, pay whoever is doing it a wage. No ifs, no buts.
Also no surprise to see President Business expecting someone to benefit from free labour.
That last comment is not needed and not very dignified. You should know better. It is also stupidly wrong.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:18 pm
by Max B Gold
spen666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:53 am
I thought these "internships" for no salary had been outlawed.
Even if not, this does not reflect well on the club.
They should be illegal because they are immoral.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:22 pm
by Max B Gold
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:56 am
So the club is offering a student the chance to develop their career and add a relevant post to their CV. What’s wrong in that for a community club.
If people don’t want to do it they dont have to, no big deal. I’m sure the club could manage without someone.
By not paying for the labour the choice argument you rely on to support your contention becomes redundant because less well off students may not be able to give up their time for free. It's blatant exploitation.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:25 pm
by Proposition Joe
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:06 pm
Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:59 am
If it's a job that needs doing, pay whoever is doing it a wage. No ifs, no buts.
Also no surprise to see President Business expecting someone to benefit from free labour.
That last comment is not needed and not very dignified. You should know better. It is also stupidly wrong.
Having clarified that you don't see anything wrong with it, can you explain how what I said is incorrect?
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:25 pm
by eagwgw
Thing is, it is not very 'voluntary' once a kid has agreed to do it. I think the club would be expecting a couple of hours work every week, while there are U18 games on. It sounds like a commitment for the rest of the season.
To be fair there are plenty of industries that leverage supply/demand like this, but that doesn't mean we have to follow. I can't see what the harm is in paying a token £20 or so per report and other stuff like free tickets/merch. If the content is good and engaging I'd imagine it would end up paying for itself over time, as the website and Youtube are monetised by ads.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:30 pm
by LittleMate
The laws of supply and demand apply: if someone wants the gig then they will do it.
If its a student then you would hope that the club pay any reasonable out of pocket expenses including travelling to and from home games.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:48 pm
by Red_Army
LittleMate wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:30 pm
The laws of supply and demand apply: if someone wants the gig then they will do it.
If its a student then you would hope that the club pay any reasonable out of pocket expenses including travelling to and from home games.
That doesn't make it right. By the same argument you can justify poverty pay by the fact that someone is always desperate enough to take whatever is on the table- this is why free markets can never work in a pure form for working people.
It isn't mentioned that they are paying expenses anywhere in the article.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:50 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Even if they gave away a season ticket or two to cover it FFS.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:57 pm
by Max B Gold
Red_Army wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:48 pm
LittleMate wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:30 pm
The laws of supply and demand apply: if someone wants the gig then they will do it.
If its a student then you would hope that the club pay any reasonable out of pocket expenses including travelling to and from home games.
That doesn't make it right. By the same argument you can justify poverty pay by the fact that someone is always desperate enough to take whatever is on the table- this is why free markets can never work in a pure form for working people.
It isn't mentioned that they are paying expenses anywhere in the article.
POI- There is no such thing as a "free market". The sate intervenes and provides the framework for markets to benefit business and the rich.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:58 pm
by Thor
Hold your horses people and calm down.
My son went to work for BGC Partners as an intern during the summer holidays. He was offered a job at a very good salary once he'd finished his studies and now earns a significant amount of money.
Would he have got in just going for a job that attracts 900 plus applicants? Who knows, but that internship period got him the job, now he's a qualified trader earning unbelievable money for a young lad. So its swings and roundabouts, his opportunity came about due to his willingness and in time ability to progress within the business.
Finally whatever the law is right now in this country I am more than confident that the club will do the right thing.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:01 pm
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:25 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:06 pm
Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:59 am
If it's a job that needs doing, pay whoever is doing it a wage. No ifs, no buts.
Also no surprise to see President Business expecting someone to benefit from free labour.
That last comment is not needed and not very dignified. You should know better. It is also stupidly wrong.
Having clarified that you don't see anything wrong with it, can you explain how what I said is incorrect?
Because under the right circumstances BOTH parties can benefit from the free labour. If not, the free labour will not happen. The offer need not be taken up by students who see no benefit. This tends to be the case with many volunteer type roles and is not uncommon.
I dare say many political party activists work for free because they support their cause. Hospital visitors, prison visitors, school helpers, like me.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:02 pm
by Max B Gold
Thor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:58 pm
Hold your horses people and calm down.
My son went to work for BGC Partners as an intern during the summer holidays. He was offered a job at a very good salary once he'd finished his studies and now earns a significant amount of money.
Would he have got in just going for a job that attracts 900 plus applicants? Who knows, but that internship period got him the job, now he's a qualified trader earning unbelievable money for a young lad. So its swings and roundabouts, his opportunity came about due to his willingness and in time ability to progress within the business.
Finally whatever the law is right now in this country I am more than confident that the club will do the right thing.
You're talking bollocks but carry on.
His opportunity arose because of the advantages he had in life provided by a well off family and not from the internship.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:07 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Thor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:58 pm
Hold your horses people and calm down.
My son went to work for BGC Partners as an intern during the summer holidays. He was offered a job at a very good salary once he'd finished his studies and now earns a significant amount of money.
Would he have got in just going for a job that attracts 900 plus applicants? Who knows, but that internship period got him the job, now he's a qualified trader earning unbelievable money for a young lad. So its swings and roundabouts, his opportunity came about due to his willingness and in time ability to progress within the business.
Finally whatever the law is right now in this country I am more than confident that the club will do the right thing.
Absolute poo poo.
Your son got in because he has a multi-millionaire father who is able to support him whilst he works for free. Lot of other, much better, candidates won't have got in because they can't afford to work for free.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:08 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:01 pm
Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:25 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:06 pm
That last comment is not needed and not very dignified. You should know better. It is also stupidly wrong.
Having clarified that you don't see anything wrong with it, can you explain how what I said is incorrect?
Because under the right circumstances BOTH parties can benefit from the free labour. If not, the free labour will not happen. The offer need not be taken up by students who see no benefit. This tends to be the case with many volunteer type roles and is not uncommon.
I dare say many political party activists work for free because they support their cause. Hospital visitors, prison visitors, school helpers, like me.
We are not a political party. We are a business owned and managed by millionaires.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:09 pm
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:02 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:58 pm
Hold your horses people and calm down.
My son went to work for BGC Partners as an intern during the summer holidays. He was offered a job at a very good salary once he'd finished his studies and now earns a significant amount of money.
Would he have got in just going for a job that attracts 900 plus applicants? Who knows, but that internship period got him the job, now he's a qualified trader earning unbelievable money for a young lad. So its swings and roundabouts, his opportunity came about due to his willingness and in time ability to progress within the business.
Finally whatever the law is right now in this country I am more than confident that the club will do the right thing.
You're talking bollocks but carry on.
His opportunity arose because of the advantages he had in life provided by a well off family and not from the internship.
Max you are being really silly mate. There are two issues here, the first being the value of internships and beyond doubt for many people they are a bloody good thing. That Max is beyond sensible dispute.
The second point is whether or not they help those who can afford it. Sure. But unless you support a race to the bottom that’s the way it is, pity.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:11 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Why are you so wrong on practically everything?
This is not about those that can afford it. This is about them being a barrier to those who CANNOT afford it.
Re: Orient on the cheap
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:18 pm
by Max B Gold
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:09 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:02 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:58 pm
Hold your horses people and calm down.
My son went to work for BGC Partners as an intern during the summer holidays. He was offered a job at a very good salary once he'd finished his studies and now earns a significant amount of money.
Would he have got in just going for a job that attracts 900 plus applicants? Who knows, but that internship period got him the job, now he's a qualified trader earning unbelievable money for a young lad. So its swings and roundabouts, his opportunity came about due to his willingness and in time ability to progress within the business.
Finally whatever the law is right now in this country I am more than confident that the club will do the right thing.
You're talking bollocks but carry on.
His opportunity arose because of the advantages he had in life provided by a well off family and not from the internship.
Max you are being really silly mate. There are two issues here, the first being the value of internships and beyond doubt for many people they are a bloody good thing. That Max is beyond sensible dispute.
The second point is whether or not they help those who can afford it. Sure. But unless you support a race to the bottom that’s the way it is, pity.
More bollocks but carry on.
As RedO says nobody is disputing the value of internships. In fact my son did one over the summer for a famous politician and didn't get paid except for Ex's. He couldn't have done it were he not supported by his parents.
Therefore, the point that people who do not have that privilege are excluded from providing their labour for free to highly profitable capitalist enterprises.
Your second paragraph is just utter bollocks and I'm not even going to bother replying to it. Your quest to troll has robbed you of the ability to argue rationally.