Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I'm sure we would all agree that our success last season was based on the defence, specifically Coulson and Ekpiteta. This season virtually the same players have been so dodgy. Do people think this is because:

- the standard at League Two is much higher than it was in the National League
- The players are struggling to get going
- It is a general reaction to the loss of Edinburgh
- Edinburgh made them play better than they actually were (he was after all a defender himself)

What do people think?

Probably a bit of each, but Justin was a good motivator and that is what we are lacking currently. With due respect to Ross, he is a decent coach but not such a strong personality as Justin. Hopefully the new manager will fill that gap.

For me, FL2 has significantly better players, nothing else. There were a catalogue of times last season when we should have conceded but didn't, now we are being punished more often.

bobo66 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:16 pm I'm sure we would all agree that our success last season was based on the defence, specifically Coulson and Ekpiteta. This season virtually the same players have been so dodgy. Do people think this is because:

- the standard at League Two is much higher than it was in the National League
- The players are struggling to get going
- It is a general reaction to the loss of Edinburgh
- Edinburgh made them play better than they actually were (he was after all a defender himself)

What do people think?

I think it's a bit of everything you've stated. The strikers are probably better this year although the general standard on what I have seen isn't much better.

bobo66 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:16 pm I'm sure we would all agree that our success last season was based on the defence, specifically Coulson and Ekpiteta. This season virtually the same players have been so dodgy. Do people think this is because:

- the standard at League Two is much higher than it was in the National League
- The players are struggling to get going
- It is a general reaction to the loss of Edinburgh
- Edinburgh made them play better than they actually were (he was after all a defender himself)

What do people think?

Most of those however,resigning injured players and keeping inadequate players hasn’t helped the cause

As others have said I think it’s a bit of all of bobo66 said. I also reckon that Coulson is carrying an injury.

I'm not so sure about that. I think he's just slow.

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:51 pm I'm not so sure about that. I think he's just slow.

And that

RebornO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:47 pm As others have said I think it’s a bit of all of bobo66 said. I also reckon that Coulson is carrying an injury.

I'm sure he is, someone said he winces when he kicks a ball, if that's correct then I suspect he's carrying a groin strain. I've seen with my own eyes he's not running like he normally does and is certainly in my opinion making allowance for it. If I'm correct then it's not bad enough to stop him playing and being the captain and an important player he's playing under the medical teams guidance and playing through it.

Time will tell.

Not too sure Coulson being slow is such a big deal. Not uncommon for players to slow as we know but they can make up with greater experience to some extent. I thought against Northampton he owned his man. Partly down to Happe having a decent game and Marv doing well at RB. Coulson didn’t have to constantly be in two places at once.

People who kept saying not much difference between top end NL and L2 are, I’m sure, reconsidering that view. The difference is significant and probably a shock for Ekpiteta, Ling and Happe. But that dont mean they cannot step up with a bit of guidance.

By far the issue is, for me anyway, organisation. Our players are motivated but there is just no defensive organisation going on. You see it all the time, players asking who was covering this or that player. Sure, it happens in the best of defences but one of our strengths last season is our weakness this. Better players have so much time to hurt us, and they do.

I don’t think decent players have suddenly got bad, they just need someone to bring it together and Ross is not that person, I doubt he ever was. We just live in hope that an experienced Head Coach comes in and instils a bit of organisation and discipline in the team.

A coach is a coach, he or she plans and puts on sessions according to the managers wants needs and requirements.

You've seen what JE did for us from a defensive perspective and what's happened since he has left. I am not slagging off RE, he's a coach not a manager and there lies the difference.

Hopefully, Turley can help plug the leaks. If not our new Head Coach will need to bring in another defender in the January transfer window either permanently or on loan

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:19 pm A coach is a coach, he or she plans and puts on sessions according to the managers wants needs and requirements.

You've seen what JE did for us from a defensive perspective and what's happened since he has left. I am not slagging off RE, he's a coach not a manager and there lies the difference.

Yup. And that has always been the case when you listen to him talk.

When Ross took over as interim head coach (manager), we recruited a poor manager and lost a good coach.

Lose/Lose

Smart.

Milano wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:10 pm For me, FL2 has significantly better players, nothing else. There were a catalogue of times last season when we should have conceded but didn't, now we are being punished more often.

It’s really not that.

At the risk of repeating myself, there are lots of contributory factors as noted above but the main one is the total lack of cover afforded to our defence by the midfield and forward line.

Jobi was no hard man but we haven’t replaced him in that deeper midfield role.

Same with Bonne and Koroma, they didn’t stop running all game. No way would centre halves and full backs be picking passes through us like they are if those two were still here.

You can’t set out with a powder puff front six of the likes of Marsh/Wright/Gorman/Brophy/JMD/ Dennis and expect to compete physically.

Also we had Judd/ Turley at full back last season.

Weve got The Samling this year.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:41 pm At the risk of repeating myself, there are lots of contributory factors as noted above but the main one is the total lack of cover afforded to our defence by the midfield and forward line.

Jobi was no hard man but we haven’t replaced him in that deeper midfield role.

Same with Bonne and Koroma, they didn’t stop running all game. No way would centre halves and full backs be picking passes through us like they are if those two were still here.

Some truth in what you say. Not with Bonne/Koroma so much, Wilkinson works very hard as does Angol. Our midfield however isn’t really doing the business as a unit. Not really sorted out that area properly and for sure will add pressure to the defence, but our possession stats are good so we are not being overrun.

Meaningless stat I know.

Last season
Judd played 19 league games, we conceded 9 goals. We never conceded more than one in any game he played.
Ling played 20 games and we conceded 23 goals. We conceded 2 or more 7 times.

Fag packet calculations so maybe the odd error, but you get my drift.

There's a definite step up in quality, speed and fitness that the defence in particular have struggled with. The standard of opposition pre-season being so poor didn't help either, smacks of complacency there with both Coulson and Embleton saying they were surprised by the step up (really?)

In a theme that seems to have afflicted a few in the squad we have players that don't look 100% fit, perhaps not even 80% in the case of Coulson and Clay. Whether that's the effects of what happened to JE or hangover from last season's efforts hard to say.

What is woefully apparent is lack of squad depth. No cover for Widdowson, no senior CBs if you work on the basis Turley is first choice for RB when he returns and still missing that combative CM we've needed for well over a year.

You could argue that Wright is doing his job given his goal return but out of Clay / Gorman / Marsh you'd be hard pressed to say any of those 3 deserve to be first choice CM alongside him.

New manager will need to shore things up for now then spend in January to get some more experience in. Selling Ekpiteta may fund that if he doesn't sign a new contract in the meantime imo.

A bit of all stated at the top especially that this League is faster than the NL and what it was hen we left L2. In the programme notes of one of the early games RE and Josh Coulson hinted that they had been surprised by the pace of the games. Its even quicker in L1 from games I've seen on TV.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:21 pm Hopefully, Turley can help plug the leaks. If not our new Head Coach will need to bring in another defender in the January transfer window either permanently or on loan

I know of a plumber who can stop leaks, his work is good although he will probably not turn up when he says he will. Hopefully Turley is qualified otherwise max and his union mates will be all over him like a bad rash.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:08 pm Meaningless stat I know.

Last season
Judd played 19 league games, we conceded 9 goals. We never conceded more than one in any game he played.
Ling played 20 games and we conceded 23 goals. We conceded 2 or more 7 times.

Fag packet calculations so maybe the odd error, but you get my drift.

Yeah, like you said, meaningless.

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:17 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:08 pm Meaningless stat I know.

Last season
Judd played 19 league games, we conceded 9 goals. We never conceded more than one in any game he played.
Ling played 20 games and we conceded 23 goals. We conceded 2 or more 7 times.

Fag packet calculations so maybe the odd error, but you get my drift.

Yeah, like you said, meaningless.

Of course, which is why I started with that comment, all sorts of other factors involved. But it’s interesting none the less, suggests a defence with Judd in it is as strong as a defence with Ling. Judd not the weakest link. Therefore worth a run now to see if our defence overall would be better.

Judging by how often they've not been there I thought the defence was "alibi"