Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I keep seeing this phrase (sometimes it's top 7 budget) being repeated on social media and on here. Just wondering though...

a) who said it and when (I guess on one of the podcasts so it's not on record anywhere?)

b) is it solely referring to playing budget or costs at the club in general e.g. academy?

Given we sold our two star players, released two of the initial ones (Lee and Lawless you'd imagine were on decent contracts), saved on Grainger's wages etc. just how much are we paying the couple of new players to be that high up the wages charts? Certainly don't seem to have the squad depth to justify that expenditure

Of course we’ll have a top 7 wage budget.

Gshaw just can't stand to admit that we spend money on the team. In places he talks about budget restrictions. Now he is contradicting himself with talk of a top 10 budget.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:14 pm Gshaw just can't stand to admit that we spend money on the team. In places he talks about budget restrictions. Now he is contradicting himself with talk of a top 10 budget.

Well we are losing 1.9 m a year , so yes I imagine we have got a top ten budget.
Whether it’s being spent well is another matter.
Brentford we are not.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:14 pm Gshaw just can't stand to admit that we spend money on the team. In places he talks about budget restrictions. Now he is contradicting himself with talk of a top 10 budget.

I question where the quote comes from as it doesn't seem to be reflected in the depth and quality of the squad. On wages across the board I can easily believe it as we've got a huge backroom and academy staff list but player-wise much less convincing.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:59 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:14 pm Gshaw just can't stand to admit that we spend money on the team. In places he talks about budget restrictions. Now he is contradicting himself with talk of a top 10 budget.

Well we are losing 1.9 m a year , so yes I imagine we have got a top ten budget.
Whether it’s being spent well is another matter.
Brentford we are not.

Getting promoted is worth nearly a £1m to the club. Estimate is £1.1m, against £1.85m loss, if we had stayed in the national league.

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:47 pm

Byways1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:59 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:14 pm Gshaw just can't stand to admit that we spend money on the team. In places he talks about budget restrictions. Now he is contradicting himself with talk of a top 10 budget.

Well we are losing 1.9 m a year , so yes I imagine we have got a top ten budget.
Whether it’s being spent well is another matter.
Brentford we are not.

Getting promoted is worth nearly a £1m to the club. Estimate is £1.1m, against £1.85m loss, if we had stayed in the national league.

What interests me is not just increased income but increased costs. The board has set a playing budget which will be separate from other costs. I doubt anybody knows how that compares with others in L2. But that’s up to those who dip into their own money to support the club.

I think they are doing a great job with sponsorship deals and maybe a little profit from player sales. Plus ST sales are up. Come the end of this season we will be able to replace those players who have no future with the club and have little doubt our squad will be improved. In the meantime a mid table season should be satisfactory to us all.

Surely, in order to establish that we have a 'Top 10 budget' the person on here that claims this would have needed to have seen all the budgets from the other 23 L2 clubs, rank them, and then decide we are "in the top 10".

So it's no doubt bollocks, or just a baseless guess. Just another stick to beat the club with.

Of course it’s a guess. I suppose it’s possible to look at all clubs and take a stab. But we don’t know. More important to spend well. Having players fit to start the season is an option

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:47 pm

Byways1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:59 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:14 pm Gshaw just can't stand to admit that we spend money on the team. In places he talks about budget restrictions. Now he is contradicting himself with talk of a top 10 budget.

Well we are losing 1.9 m a year , so yes I imagine we have got a top ten budget.
Whether it’s being spent well is another matter.
Brentford we are not.

Getting promoted is worth nearly a £1m to the club. Estimate is £1.1m, against £1.85m loss, if we had stayed in the national league.

Where do you get your nearly a million quid from?
There’s no prize money for being promoted etc each league 2 team gets an equal cut from the EFL
I believe it’s just under a half a million for 2019/20

Easily going to be a decent revenue rise. TV money is increased, academy gets grants, able to charge more for sponsorships, average ticket price is higher.

Supposedly according to the Maidstone owner, league handouts for a League Two club are almost £1m, for a National League club £100k. I would guess this includes academy funding.

In terms of net, would be smaller as the cost of player wages go up. Perhaps many already had a rise written into their contracts.

Although its a rough estimate you can look at some clubs in the League and be fairly confident that we would have a bigger playing budget.
Similarly it would also be a good guess that we are behind the bigger supported clubs (Swindon, Plymouth, Bradford) as well as the big spenders (Forest Green, Salford)

Teague clarified what budget we have on one of the early season Orient Hours i believe. Think he said it was midtable.

Teague said to us on the Orient fans show that 7th would constitute a successful season this year, due to our budget being in line with that. You can listen back to it here from about the 15 minute mark: https://www.lovesportradio.com/radiopla ... tems/3176/

BrendO wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:45 am Teague said to us on the Orient fans show that 7th would constitute a successful season this year, due to our budget being in line with that. You can listen back to it here from about the 15 minute mark: https://www.lovesportradio.com/radiopla ... tems/3176/

Well this page transfer market has us down in 22nd .
Ok its market value but market value plus kents top 7 budget leaves us around 14th by my reckoning.

Certainly not a top 10 budget as people on here keep spouting.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/league- ... bewerb/GB4

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:32 pm

BrendO wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:45 am Teague said to us on the Orient fans show that 7th would constitute a successful season this year, due to our budget being in line with that. You can listen back to it here from about the 15 minute mark: https://www.lovesportradio.com/radiopla ... tems/3176/

Well this page transfer market has us down in 22nd .
Ok its market value but market value plus kents top 7 budget leaves us around 14th by my reckoning.

Certainly not a top 10 budget as people on here keep spouting.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/league- ... bewerb/GB4

Run that logic by me again please.

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:00 am

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:47 pm

Byways1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:59 pm

Well we are losing 1.9 m a year , so yes I imagine we have got a top ten budget.
Whether it’s being spent well is another matter.
Brentford we are not.

Getting promoted is worth nearly a £1m to the club. Estimate is £1.1m, against £1.85m loss, if we had stayed in the national league.

Where do you get your nearly a million quid from?
There’s no prize money for being promoted etc each league 2 team gets an equal cut from the EFL
I believe it’s just under a half a million for 2019/20

It came from one of the podcasts with NT KT or DM. The difference may well come from sponsorship.

I have a recollection that it was DM.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:32 pm

BrendO wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:45 am Teague said to us on the Orient fans show that 7th would constitute a successful season this year, due to our budget being in line with that. You can listen back to it here from about the 15 minute mark: https://www.lovesportradio.com/radiopla ... tems/3176/

Well this page transfer market has us down in 22nd .
Ok its market value but market value plus kents top 7 budget leaves us around 14th by my reckoning.

Certainly not a top 10 budget as people on here keep spouting.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/league- ... bewerb/GB4

Run that logic by me again please.

KT thinks we finish 7th
Our transfer market placing is 22nd
Take the 2 & find the median ( middle.number as opposed to mean adding up all
numbers then dividing by amoumt of numbers in this case 2 )

Works out to about 14 .

Simple really doH

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:52 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:32 pm

Well this page transfer market has us down in 22nd .
Ok its market value but market value plus kents top 7 budget leaves us around 14th by my reckoning.

Certainly not a top 10 budget as people on here keep spouting.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/league- ... bewerb/GB4

Run that logic by me again please.

KT thinks we finish 7th
Our transfer market placing is 22nd
Take the 2 & find the median ( middle.number as opposed to mean adding up all
numbers then dividing by amoumt of numbers in this case 2 )

Works out to about 14 .

Simple really doH

I understand the math being used. Just don’t understand where including market value and a budget value can produce a meaningful outcome.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:56 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:52 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm

Run that logic by me again please.

KT thinks we finish 7th
Our transfer market placing is 22nd
Take the 2 & find the median ( middle.number as opposed to mean adding up all
numbers then dividing by amoumt of numbers in this case 2 )

Works out to about 14 .

Simple really doH

I understand the math being used. Just don’t understand where including market value and a budget value can produce a meaningful outcome.

Because a market value equates to earnings fella

I thought you were a buisnessman

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:56 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:52 pm

KT thinks we finish 7th
Our transfer market placing is 22nd
Take the 2 & find the median ( middle.number as opposed to mean adding up all
numbers then dividing by amoumt of numbers in this case 2 )

Works out to about 14 .

Simple really doH

I understand the math being used. Just don’t understand where including market value and a budget value can produce a meaningful outcome.

Because a market value equates to earnings fella

I thought you were a buisnessman

Don't think you can really use transfermarkt as a reliable source for stuff like this. If you look at this link, most of our players don't have a value and of the one's that do Matt Harrold is considered our second most valuable player. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leyton- ... on_id/2019

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:56 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:52 pm

KT thinks we finish 7th
Our transfer market placing is 22nd
Take the 2 & find the median ( middle.number as opposed to mean adding up all
numbers then dividing by amoumt of numbers in this case 2 )

Works out to about 14 .

Simple really doH

I understand the math being used. Just don’t understand where including market value and a budget value can produce a meaningful outcome.

Because a market value equates to earnings fella

I thought you were a buisnessman

Enough to know this calculation is totally unreliable in determining if we have a top 10 budget.

BrendO wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:45 am Teague said to us on the Orient fans show that 7th would constitute a successful season this year, due to our budget being in line with that. You can listen back to it here from about the 15 minute mark: https://www.lovesportradio.com/radiopla ... tems/3176/

I made it around the 22 nd minute mark.
He clearly states our wage bill is top 7 which as far as I’m aware is in the top 10.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:18 pm

BrendO wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:45 am Teague said to us on the Orient fans show that 7th would constitute a successful season this year, due to our budget being in line with that. You can listen back to it here from about the 15 minute mark: https://www.lovesportradio.com/radiopla ... tems/3176/

I made it around the 22 nd minute mark.
He clearly states our wage bill is top 7 which as far as I’m aware is in the top 10.

But no proof to show it actually is .

What kent is aware of as top 10 maybe different to what the other 23 clubs are actually spending.

Bradford plymouth scunthorpe & walsall all relegated therefore bigger budgets

Swindon & Salford Oldham would have a bigger budget

Arguably Mansfield northampton Carlisle & Colchester would be similar budget size to us. So we are in the top 12 .

Either way it only matters what our budget was at the end of a season. It was either good enough or not good enough , so untill the end of the season we need to leave budget chatter alone .

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:10 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:56 pm

I understand the math being used. Just don’t understand where including market value and a budget value can produce a meaningful outcome.

Because a market value equates to earnings fella

I thought you were a buisnessman

Enough to know this calculation is totally unreliable in determining if we have a top 10 budget.

This is true but unless Kent has available figures of everyone elses budget that is just as unreliable .

Kent can you confirm or deny you have details of all 23 other clubs current budgets & can you publish them here please as we are in dispute. Cheers

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:17 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:10 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 pm

Because a market value equates to earnings fella

I thought you were a buisnessman

Enough to know this calculation is totally unreliable in determining if we have a top 10 budget.

This is true but unless Kent has available figures of everyone elses budget that is just as unreliable .

Kent can you confirm or deny you have details of all 23 other clubs current budgets & can you publish them here please as we are in dispute. Cheers

I think that is a very fair observation. I would guess he doesn’t have the details so his comment also is guesswork. But I would think his guess is probably based on some knowledge, being closer to football finances than us, but a guess none the less.

In truth none of us know, so those who feel our budget is top 10 are just as likely to be right as those who feel it is not. Given the uncertainty Im happy to go with Kent’s guess.