Independent Leyton Orient Forum

If Bolton and Bury are kicked out of the league, there will be no relegation from L2.
Not as if we will finish in the bottom two anyway.
But worth noting.

Why not?

I reckon we’ll finish mid-table, but let’s hope that Bury and Bolton can be saved.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 pm If Bolton and Bury are kicked out of the league, there will be no relegation from L2.
Not as if we will finish in the bottom two anyway.
But worth noting.

Think most clubs would accept a relegation into non league for a couple of
years to avoid any clubs folding.

If a Club as Big as Bolton can Go , then any Club can go.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:49 pm

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 pm If Bolton and Bury are kicked out of the league, there will be no relegation from L2.
Not as if we will finish in the bottom two anyway.
But worth noting.

Think most clubs would accept a relegation into non league for a couple of
years to avoid any clubs folding.

If a Club as Big as Bolton can Go , then any Club can go.

Very true.
Most clubs including our own lose millions every year and are only kept afloat by a rich benefactors.
If Nigel and Kent pull the plug we will be in the same boat.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:12 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:49 pm

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 pm If Bolton and Bury are kicked out of the league, there will be no relegation from L2.
Not as if we will finish in the bottom two anyway.
But worth noting.

Think most clubs would accept a relegation into non league for a couple of
years to avoid any clubs folding.

If a Club as Big as Bolton can Go , then any Club can go.

Very true.
Most clubs including our own lose millions every year and are only kept afloat by a rich benefactors.
If Nigel and Kent pull the plug we will be in the same boat.

So best to keep them happy & not call them out for not being ambitious or
that they should spend millions bringing in new players new management staff etc


Stability & a good buisness plan is the future.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 pm If Bolton and Bury are kicked out of the league, there will be no relegation from L2.
Not as if we will finish in the bottom two anyway.
But worth noting.

I thought the same but the EFL statement re Bury doesn't say that. It says...

....League One will now comprise of 23 Clubs for the remainder of the campaign and relegation places in the division reduced to three, which will result in a full complement of 24 Clubs in 2020/21. A discussion will take place with EFL Clubs on the consequential impact in League Two when Clubs next meet in September 2019....

https://www.efl.com/news/2019/august/bu ... withdrawn/

All I can take of that is that there may be a possibility of promoting an extra team from the NL subject to that meeting. Can't immediately see what other option there can be

spen666 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:45 am

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 pm If Bolton and Bury are kicked out of the league, there will be no relegation from L2.
Not as if we will finish in the bottom two anyway.
But worth noting.

I thought the same but the EFL statement re Bury doesn't say that. It says...

....League One will now comprise of 23 Clubs for the remainder of the campaign and relegation places in the division reduced to three, which will result in a full complement of 24 Clubs in 2020/21. A discussion will take place with EFL Clubs on the consequential impact in League Two when Clubs next meet in September 2019....

https://www.efl.com/news/2019/august/bu ... withdrawn/

All I can take of that is that there may be a possibility of promoting an extra team from the NL subject to that meeting. Can't immediately see what other option there can be

When Maidstone went out of Buisness no one was relegated from the 4th tier.
Id imagine only 1 will go down & 2 up.
Unless Bolton go out of Buisness then no relegation & 2 up.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:12 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:49 pm

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 pm If Bolton and Bury are kicked out of the league, there will be no relegation from L2.
Not as if we will finish in the bottom two anyway.
But worth noting.

Think most clubs would accept a relegation into non league for a couple of
years to avoid any clubs folding.

If a Club as Big as Bolton can Go , then any Club can go.

Very true.
Most clubs including our own lose millions every year and are only kept afloat by a rich benefactors.
If Nigel and Kent pull the plug we will be in the same boat.

Thanks to Beelzebub, we were in the same boat. I feel so sorry for Bury and especially their loyal fans.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:12 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:49 pm

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 pm If Bolton and Bury are kicked out of the league, there will be no relegation from L2.
Not as if we will finish in the bottom two anyway.
But worth noting.

Think most clubs would accept a relegation into non league for a couple of
years to avoid any clubs folding.

If a Club as Big as Bolton can Go , then any Club can go.

Very true.
Most clubs including our own lose millions every year and are only kept afloat by a rich benefactors.
If Nigel and Kent pull the plug we will be in the same boat.

Nigel is a Leyton Orient fan through and through and we are lucky to have him. He is working to secure the future of Leyton Orient for the next 20-30 years. He has also made donations to the club prior to becoming it's chairman.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:49 pm

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 pm If Bolton and Bury are kicked out of the league, there will be no relegation from L2.
Not as if we will finish in the bottom two anyway.
But worth noting.

Think most clubs would accept a relegation into non league for a couple of
years to avoid any clubs folding.

If a Club as Big as Bolton can Go , then any Club can go.

Err. I don’t think most would. Hey orient, we are going to relegate you to the National league but the good news is, you will save Bury.

Arsenal. Would you mind awfully if you get relegated to the national league so Bolton can stay solvent.

Revenue loss for even a L2 team might be close to £1m to spend a year in the National League.

Given that clubs could have stumped up the money between them to save Bury but didn't kinda says to me that a lot of people wouldn't go that far.
Premier League clubs gave £250k each for Scadamore's leaving gift, ffs.

Problem is it might set a bad precedent for bad ownership if people knew there was always going to be a bailout.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:20 am

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:12 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:49 pm

Think most clubs would accept a relegation into non league for a couple of
years to avoid any clubs folding.

If a Club as Big as Bolton can Go , then any Club can go.

Very true.
Most clubs including our own lose millions every year and are only kept afloat by a rich benefactors.
If Nigel and Kent pull the plug we will be in the same boat.

So best to keep them happy & not call them out for not being ambitious or
that they should spend millions bringing in new players new management staff etc


Stability & a good buisness plan is the future.

As paying customers we are entitled to an opinion.
Just because they are financing the club doesn’t mean we have to result to bootlicking and tugging the forelock.
Without the fans the club doesn’t exist.
For what it’s worth, I think they have done a brilliant job so far, but a lot will depend if they are prepared to finance a 1m+ loss every year to progress.
Talk of breaking even is a tall order, we will have to get regular gates of 7000 PAYING customers for that to happen or slash the wage bill.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:13 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:45 am

Byways1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 pm If Bolton and Bury are kicked out of the league, there will be no relegation from L2.
Not as if we will finish in the bottom two anyway.
But worth noting.

I thought the same but the EFL statement re Bury doesn't say that. It says...

....League One will now comprise of 23 Clubs for the remainder of the campaign and relegation places in the division reduced to three, which will result in a full complement of 24 Clubs in 2020/21. A discussion will take place with EFL Clubs on the consequential impact in League Two when Clubs next meet in September 2019....

https://www.efl.com/news/2019/august/bu ... withdrawn/

All I can take of that is that there may be a possibility of promoting an extra team from the NL subject to that meeting. Can't immediately see what other option there can be

When Maidstone went out of Buisness no one was relegated from the 4th tier.
Id imagine only 1 will go down & 2 up.
Unless Bolton go out of Buisness then no relegation & 2 up.

This is by far the most likely scenario. Only one club will get relegated from League Two and two up from the National League.

If bolton go too, which is quite possible, I presume they'd be no relegation from league 2.
It would be interesting to see how this would affect teams in the relegation zone in January, inasmuch as would they bother bringing in players to climb the table, as they would if the usual danger of dropping out the league applied, or would the mindset be, who cares if we finish bottom, theres no relegation etc

eagwgw wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:54 am ....
Premier League clubs gave £250k each for Scadamore's leaving gift, ffs.

....

They didn't

They were asked to but some refused

How many refused, Spencer?
My recollection was that the thing was done on votes, and voting against doesn't exempt you from what the collective decides.

Even still, the premise is still the same. Clubs could have put their resources together for a more worthy cause, but watched it die.

Like I said, it is a difficult precedent, if football clubs banded together and rescued Bury (which was easily within the means) then you would be obliged to do so for Bolton and all the future clubs who inevitably will fall on hard times.

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:30 am

Nigel is a Leyton Orient fan through and through and we are lucky to have him. He is working to secure the future of Leyton Orient for the next 20-30 years. He has also made donations to the club prior to becoming it's chairman.

Is that last bit true? (Obviously he's a life long fan, even if circumstances meant he could hardly attend games).

Why would he just hand over money to Bazza or Bechetti for no reason? He's not that daft.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:18 am

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:30 am

Nigel is a Leyton Orient fan through and through and we are lucky to have him. He is working to secure the future of Leyton Orient for the next 20-30 years. He has also made donations to the club prior to becoming it's chairman.

Is that last bit true? (Obviously he's a life long fan, even if circumstances meant he could hardly attend games).

Why would he just hand over money to Bazza or Bechetti for no reason? He's not that daft.

The Dunkin Donuts hoardings were a private investment made by Nigel in the club; he just used the space for his employers.

Although very much a sideshow to the wider issue, the relegation spots outcome is probably the thing that affects us directly the most this season. You could view it as a silver lining (if you ignore what caused it and take it as fact, simply there will be one less relegation place this year) and I’m in the camp this year that’s is all about just staying in the league, with what’s happened over the summer, so in a way that’s good news.

But it undoubtedly makes the league less competitive towards the lower end and will so ten fold if Bolton go too and they have no relegation. That’s a crying shame in my opinion because you’ll essentially have bucket loads of fixtures that are totally, typical end of season, dead rubbers in about February. Gates will be down across the board and I doubt the football will be that pretty either.

As mentioned this is a total sideshow to the awful outcome of what’s happening to these clubs but it’s worth considering

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:44 am Arsenal. Would you mind awfully if you get relegated to the national league so Bolton can stay solvent.

Comoletely missed my point Bear

A club struggling should accept relegation
to avoid piling more debt trying to survive.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:13 am Clubs could have put their resources together for a more worthy cause, but watched it die.

In the previous 25 seasons over 40 different British clubs have gone into administration. Who gets help? Leeds? Portsmouth (three times in administration)?

The problem here is if the Premier League did give Bury enough to pay their debts, you can bet that Steve Dale would have pocketed most of it.

And other clubs could also go into debt, knowing they would be bailed by the Premier League.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:18 am

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:30 am

Nigel is a Leyton Orient fan through and through and we are lucky to have him. He is working to secure the future of Leyton Orient for the next 20-30 years. He has also made donations to the club prior to becoming it's chairman.

Is that last bit true? (Obviously he's a life long fan, even if circumstances meant he could hardly attend games).

Why would he just hand over money to Bazza or Bechetti for no reason? He's not that daft.

Read this article.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 59176.html