Independent Leyton Orient Forum

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 91pn7r20wo

Would like to see Orient supporting this.

Dunno what it is about this but I'm just not entirely sold on 3 up/3 down to the NL. Feels wrong.

I’d support it if they got rid of the stupid play in to the playoffs scheme they’ve got now

Two up, two down is enough. Every team knows those rules when the season starts.

Orient Punxx wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:07 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 91pn7r20wo

Would like to see Orient supporting this.

I support this idea.

I've always said it should be 3 up 3 down for each division so I would support it.

Obviously it would still have to be 4 down from the National League still since it then splits to North and South.

May as make the National League part of the EFL, make it Sky Bet League 3 and have the NL North and South step 1 of the Non League System. That's when the quality takes a downwards turn IMO.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:55 am Dunno what it is about this but I'm just not entirely sold on 3 up/3 down to the NL. Feels wrong.

It works both ways . For the EFL clubs getting relegated to the National League it allows for an extra spot to get back up again ,

Loyal_Supporter wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 10:45 am I've always said it should be 3 up 3 down for each division so I would support it.

Obviously it would still have to be 4 down from the National League still since it then splits to North and South.

May as make the National League part of the EFL, make it Sky Bet League 3 and have the NL North and South step 1 of the Non League System. That's when the quality takes a downwards turn IMO.

That's not a bad idea . All the tops sides in the National League wouldn't be out of place in League Two .

God know, 2 up 2 down is fine, anything more could kill smaller clubs

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 9:08 am I’d support it if they got rid of the stupid play in to the playoffs scheme they’ve got now

Not sure I understood that sentence. Personally I believe the way the playoffs in the National League work is far fairer than the Football League as they greatly favour the higher placed teams. The teams finishing second and third just have to win one home game to get to the playoff final. Teams finishing sixth and seventh have to win two away games. In our division all the playoff teams more or less start off equal. I accept the higher placed teams get to play the home leg second for what that's worth.

Lets go back to seeking re-election just in case we have a couple of bad seasons.
Never want to endure the hell hole that is the National League ever again.

Reynolds has got some nerve criticising our promotion structures.

Falling out of the football league and getting into it are both big deals 2 up 2 down is plenty. Also agree with CS that the current structure whereby priority is given to higher placed sides is a good thing.

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:12 pm God know, 2 up 2 down is fine, anything more could kill smaller clubs

Not picking an argument but genuinely interested in this being expanded on - do you mean smaller League clubs? And how would it do so?

Extending the football league to a new League 3 would make more sense at this point imo. There's so many ex EFL sides down there and mostly fully professional clubs now the non-league moniker doesn't really fit anymore.

I would like to see Oldham, Rochdale, Hartlepool and Southend back in the Football league.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 2:33 pm

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:12 pm God know, 2 up 2 down is fine, anything more could kill smaller clubs

Not picking an argument but genuinely interested in this being expanded on - do you mean smaller League clubs? And how would it do so?

The dream of EFL football & overspending throws clubs to the brink of destruction. Allowing a club 2 3 4 or however many years it takes to recover financially without the need of sugar daddy millionaires claiming they are here to save clubs while stripping it of assets under the guise of a quick return to the EFL.
Scunthorpe as an example very nearly died, but unlike us our saviour was honest & had the best interest at heart.
Barnet & York have taken time to rebuild, Chesterfield the same.
Look at Bury, bloke took over in League 1 relegation season & they couldn't even finish the season after he promised & pledged much.
A slow relegation & a slow & steady rebuild would have been far more beneficial than starting down at the bottom of tier 9.
It took us 2 seasons to heal, if it had taken 3 or 4 then I'd have taken that to come back healthy.
Stockport are an example of a big small club nearly going 4 or 5 seasons down in NLN & could easily have gone lower.

Let ex league clubs who nearly went in the EFL repair themselves & Come back far far stronger.
Let small clubs survive

R.I.P Scarborough, Macclesfield & others who didn't survive
2 places is enough. Those ready are coming up.

I don't see how any of that would be different if there'd been 2 or 3 up/down? Some of the points you make just seem to be down to decent ownership. And as you say, Bury got into difficulty when they were in League 1, so that wouldn't have been impacted by NL having 3 clubs promoted. I don't know what I'm missing here? If anything, it seems your arguments are in favour of *more* promotion spaces, to allow Scunthorpe/Macclesfield etc a better chance of coming back?

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 3:07 pm I don't see how any of that would be different if there'd been 2 or 3 up/down? Some of the points you make just seem to be down to decent ownership. And as you say, Bury got into difficulty when they were in League 1, so that wouldn't have been impacted by NL having 3 clubs promoted. I don't know what I'm missing here? If anything, it seems your arguments are in favour of *more* promotion spaces, to allow Scunthorpe/Macclesfield etc a better chance of coming back?

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:55 am Dunno what it is about this but I'm just not entirely sold on 3 up/3 down to the NL. Feels wrong.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 2:33 pm Not picking an argument but genuinely interested in this being expanded on - do you mean smaller League clubs? And how would it do so?

You sure you're not picking an argument?

No, I'm saying I don't understand your point of view and politely requesting clarification as part of a normal back and forth. If you're not up for that, fair enough.

I've said what I think, I'm not really interested in a conversation about it thanks all the same
Just to clarify.
3 up makes it to easy for clubs who probably aren't ready to survive in the EFL.

Should stay at 2. It would put a lot of clubs out of business because they couldn’t afford the drop down or the step up.

If this idea had been put forward 6 or 7 years ago, nobody here would’ve opposed it

I can see both sides of this argument. So, what would be fundamentally unfair with having three up/three down from all divisions and with four going down from the National League into the North/South divide?

There’s barely any difference between the top half of NL and most of L2 in terms of quality

I've watched a fair few NL games this season and I'd say the gap in quality is at least as big as the gap between L1 and L2.