Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Some good news at last that not only boosts the economy but helps us on our way to reaching net zero targets by reducing carbon emissions.

A giant gas field has been discovered under Lincolnshire that could fuel the UK’s entire needs for a decade, reducing dependence on imports and generating tens of thousands of jobs, an energy company has claimed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 98167.html

Deloitte estimate that exploiting the Gainsborough Trough field could add up to $140bn (£112bn) to GDP, yield $34bn in direct taxation and create tens of thousands of jobs. It said that CO2 emissions would be 218m tonnes lower than if Britain uses imported gas instead.

Over to you, Ed...

Ed would rather import it, absolute dipstick that he is.
Same for N.Sea oil and gas. Happy to import Norwegian O&G but we mustn’t take it out of our N.Sea sector. Makes no sense at all.

At least we're not the Germans. Shutting down their nuclear power plants and switching to reliance on coal-powered reactors for their energy needs in their pursuit to combat climate change. Morons.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 9:51 am At least we're not the Germans. Shutting down their nuclear power plants and switching to reliance on coal-powered reactors for their energy needs in their pursuit to combat climate change. Morons.

You won't be saying that when the AfD sweep to power in Germany after the upcoming elections and Trump approves them as his European Overlords.

You think this is good news? Ploughing up the Lincolnshire potatoes fields? My need for Tayto's outweighs the need for gas thank you very much.

Net zero is more deflection talk and won’t change anything unless the poorer countries get on board. Having just returned from Ghana I can tell you that anything we do will have little effect. As with most of Africa there are no electric vehicles or infrastructure to support them. Old diesel Lorries and cars spew fumes into the atmosphere wherever you are. They can only drink bottled water so the plastic waste is horrendous. The Chinese are deforesting so that they can plunder all of Ghanas mineral wealth. Illegal mining sees cyanide leeching into the rivers. Eyes need opening to what we will all face

Isn't that a bit like saying "Other people drop litter so I'll just carry on dropping litter" ? You're still adding to the litter that's being dropped.

If we're going to wait until the poorest countries in the world put in charging points and clean up their acts - then nothing's going to happen, is it?

PKM wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 9:47 am Ed would rather import it, absolute dipstick that he is.
Same for N.Sea oil and gas. Happy to import Norwegian O&G but we mustn’t take it out of our N.Sea sector. Makes no sense at all.

Absolutely this .

Apart from smart meters, what exactly is this country doing? I dont understand why there isnt a massive push to insulate peoples houses etc?

It wouldn't have an impact on energy prices here because prices are determined globally. And getting a new field would take so long and be so costly to get approved that I can't see why anyone would get worked up over this.

The rosebank oil and gas field will get approved and Miliband will probably walk, because the government has basically rowed back most of it's green agenda. Good example of how they are pleasing noone by being incapable of giving a clear sense of what they're looking to do and how it will benefit anyone. Pissed off lefties by junking the green growth stuff by advocating for stuff that right wingers will never give them credit for anyway.

Pandering to people who are going to hate them regardless seems such an obvious own goal, it indicates they're actually just working towards shared right wing goals and it doesn't really matter how they get there or who does it.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 11:46 am Apart from smart meters, what exactly is this country doing? I dont understand why there isnt a massive push to insulate peoples houses etc?

Doing nothing. The climate emergency will never be solved because it’s down to humans to solve it The public are already having kittens about imaginary stuff they are being asked to do. The cost so far a big net zero. Try telling them they can only fly once a year or eat meat once a week. Actually make sacrifices. No government will ever do that.

Apart from actually consuming much less, there's not much that can be done. You cannot "tech" your way out of the problem (so far, at least). That's the reality of it. Even the hardcore environmentalists admit this (i.e. George Monbiot etc).

Almost all "green tech" solutions are not really green when you examine the full impact throughout their supply chains (from core material extraction, manufacture, distribution, installation etc) and over their expected lifecycles (maintenance, decommissioning etc). Some are actually worse than what we currently have. Even a programme of retro-fitting insulation to existing homes generates a whole range of negative consequences.

If we're really worried about the effects of climate change, and we're really serious about doing something about it, then we need to drastically reduce global consumption. That brings with it all manner of other consequences, so no country is doing that.

Net Zero is just a slogan. Nothing more.

They're looking abroad at how every single left of centre, broadly liberal party is getting smoked, and trying to hedge their bets that their metropolitan core vote will hold their nose and vote for them because the alternative is worse, but keep enough of the reform curious lot on board by sounding a bit racist and nasty.

Think I'm right in saying this is the model used in Denmark by their labour equivalent - appear like bastards but competent ones that can sneak in a lot of the technocratic policy stuff that does result in functioning services, gdp growth, getting stuff built etc.

As grim as it is, have to hope it works, because the undiluted 'proper alternative ' didn't work with Corbyn, and surface level compassionate liberalism isn't succeeding anywhere. And if it doesn't succeed, you have reform, which doesn't bear thinking about.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 12:07 pm

the undiluted 'proper alternative ' didn't work with Corbyn,

*wasn’t given the chance to work by the people who’s interests would be at risk…

Everyone needs to relax. Reform have got this.

"Environmental experts have brutally slammed Richard Tice for claiming it is “absolute garbage” to say human activities are the main cause of climate change.

The Reform UK deputy leader suggested Nasa and the UN were wrong to report that the leading cause of climate change is human activities, arguing he could name thousands of scientists who agree with him but won’t come forward because they are “terrified to speak because they won’t get any research funding if they tell it how it is.”

“There is so much money and vested interests who are trying to push this agenda on us. It has to stop and only Reform UK is going to stop it,” he added in a fiery Sky News interview. "

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 12:07 pm Think I'm right in saying this is the model used in Denmark by their labour equivalent - appear like bastards but competent ones that can sneak in a lot of the technocratic policy stuff that does result in functioning services, gdp growth, getting stuff built etc.

As grim as it is, have to hope it works, because the undiluted 'proper alternative ' didn't work with Corbyn, and surface level compassionate liberalism isn't succeeding anywhere. And if it doesn't succeed, you have reform, which doesn't bear thinking about.

I think you're right.

The Danes began their pivot on immigration back in 2019, under left-of-centre Prime Minister, Mette Frederiksen. It was, in their view, a pragmatic change following publicised data and analysis on a range of societal and fiscal impacts that went into granular detail.

It won't solve the problems that arise due to collapsing fertility rates and deindustrialisation, of course. But the Danes have judged that mass immigration doesn't necessarily solve those problems either. I think a lot of European centre/left-of-centre liberal parties are watching this closely, as it's probably their only chance.

Is it too simple to say that non western groups contribute very little and in the end people that originate from that country become frustrated and try , legally or otherwise, to contribute less

Yes.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:48 pmYes.

But some do take that view

Would like to see the up to date graph . That one is 7 years old.

George M wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:50 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:48 pmYes.

But some do take that view

It's too simple to say what you have said. It's far more complex than that.

Will there be p*ss takers amongst any immigrant group? Yes. But the reasons for why people from various regions fare so differently when imported into a Western society will be vast and complex, such as institutional legacy in their country of origin, access to education, cultural norms, capacity of their destination country to assimilate, rural to urban adjustment etc.

Making mass immigration work is really hard. The most successful example we have, so far, is the USA. But even that was touch and go at times. And the percentage of immigrants to the host population never exceeded 17% (I think), so there was a background constant for the newly arrived to integrate into. Some western European countries have exceeded that, so we are in unchartered territory.

George M wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:58 pm Would like to see the up to date graph . That one is 7 years old.

It was posted as a bit of an explainer as to why Danish policy shifted in 2019. I'm sure there's more up to date data and analysis out there, as the Danes have been keeping careful track of it.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 2:04 pm

George M wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:58 pm Would like to see the up to date graph . That one is 7 years old.

It was posted as a bit of an explainer as to why Danish policy shifted in 2019. I'm sure there's more up to date data and analysis out there, as the Danes have been keeping careful track of it.

And in addition to this , is there a prediction as to when this group of immigrants will positively impact contributions to public services. Long term this will happen as it has in the past with different immigration groups

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 12:02 pm If we're really worried about the effects of climate change, and we're really serious about doing something about it, then we need to drastically reduce global consumption.

But what about Growth and The Economy?