Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I’ve hard RW say a few times we’re lacking experience, yet we bring in youngsters without any.
Here’s the experience we’ve ’lost’
Not saying we should have kept the players we’ve shipped out, with the exception of RS, where we didn’t have a choice.
But they’ve been replaced with , on the whole, players with significantly less experience.


Departures

Ruel Sotiriou. 197 games 51 goals
Max Sanders. 128 games 4 goals
George Moncur. 375 games 62 goals
Joe Pigott. 452 games 115 goals
Rob Hunt. 280 games 4 goals
Adam Thompson. 305 games 9 goals
El Miz. 142 games 8 goals
Forde. 69 games 21 goals
Brynn. 116 games

Total 9 players , 2,064 games, 274 goals

Excluding players that had minimal impact, Adu Ajei, Edwards , Sodje, Harvest, Tanga, Light

Arrivals
7 in

Charlie Kelman 136 games 19 goals
Sonny Perkins 13 games 2 goals
Zak Hemming 106 games
Jamie Donley 10 games
Sean Clare 288 games 19 goals
Lewis Warrington. 73 games 2 goals
Diallang Jaiyesimi 192 games 18 goals

Total 818 games 60 goals

Relax, it will be fine and it's cheaper this way too.

Most fans wanted the experienced Thompson, Pigott and Moncur gone though

The experience thing is nonsense to a degree, pretty sure there were a couple of sides at the weekend who had younger first 11's out

Apart from Obiero and Donley the rest of 11 all have reasonable experience, the back five were Clare 27, Cooper 24, Happe 24, James 29, Hemming 24, Beckles 32

On the bench, Howes 26, Pratley 39, DJ 26, Beckles 32, that's four players 25+ that he has chosen not to play

Inexperience is definitely a factor. I think Richie likes working with young players he can help and mold but I also think it’s his passive aggressive way of saying we need a better quality of player that’s ready and makes good decisions.
Considering he’s seemingly part of the decision making, him mentioning it every time we lose is wearing a bit thin

As an add on to this thread does anyone agree that this last player that Wellans is hoping to bring in should be an experienced midfielder.
To me the centre of the park as a group is to light weight and young. I think this has been evident in the first three games I've watched.
My thoughts would be someone in the Pratley mold, naturally younger, someone with physical presence and mental stature ,whether they play as a 6 8 or 10 is less relevant.
I accept that this may not be easy at this stage and perhaps we've already tried and failed.

Trust in RW - he gave us a promotion as Champions. Though it is frustrating at times, when the players that are brought in, one thinks - "what the heck, why him?"

Its our business model now and one people have called for us to have for a long time, like Peterborough.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:03 pm Its our business model now and one people have called for us to have for a long time, like Peterborough.

Exactly this. We cannot afford to splash money on talented , experienced players . But we can buy premiership coached young players who have lost their way , not reached the heights that they had hoped to , but have bags of improvement and could result in a good sell on fee further down the line. Great business if you ask me.

George M wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:56 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:03 pm Its our business model now and one people have called for us to have for a long time, like Peterborough.

Exactly this. We cannot afford to splash money on talented , experienced players . But we can buy premiership coached young players who have lost their way , not reached the heights that they had hoped to , but have bags of improvement and could result in a good sell on fee further down the line. Great business if you ask me.

The sub-prime(/prem) market

It's just Richie finding an excuse.

Peterborough had a young squad last season and done OK and imagine they'll have a young squad this season too.

End of the day it doesn't matter how old you are, what matters is how good you are and the willingness to learn.

Leger Ritson wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 11:42 am As an add on to this thread does anyone agree that this last player that Wellans is hoping to bring in should be an experienced midfielder.
To me the centre of the park as a group is to light weight and young. I think this has been evident in the first three games I've watched.
My thoughts would be someone in the Pratley mold, naturally younger, someone with physical presence and mental stature ,whether they play as a 6 8 or 10 is less relevant.
I accept that this may not be easy at this stage and perhaps we've already tried and failed.

100%. I was about to say the same thing.

George M wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:56 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:03 pm Its our business model now and one people have called for us to have for a long time, like Peterborough.

Exactly this. We cannot afford to splash money on talented , experienced players . But we can buy premiership coached young players who have lost their way , not reached the heights that they had hoped to , but have bags of improvement and could result in a good sell on fee further down the line. Great business if you ask me.

It works if they still have at least a year on their contract and they aren’t signed at end of contract

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:03 pm Its our business model now and one people have called for us to have for a long time, like Peterborough.

Peterborough spend money though and invest, they sign top young players from League Two and below

Even look at Hector cost 400k, now worth five times that
Ephron Mason-Clark, signed from Barnet fro 115k and sold for a million
Double there money on Norburn

Your going to get some hits and misses but when you hit, you are looking at millions, I think the current Orient model which seems to be free transfers or kids that haven't really made it elsewhere, Posh are plucking semi-proven young players from the league below and giving them a chance to shine which benefits the team there and then and potentially a big sale in two years time, players know this too, they are a great club to go play for, show yourself and then move on

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:03 pm Its our business model now and one people have called for us to have for a long time, like Peterborough.

We’re not doing a very good job of it if we’re loaning the young players to sell at a profit

Good point, I didnt really think it through. I guess those ones are just cheap.

I'm thinking of ONeill and Warrington

Could add Galbraith to that list, although now in last year of his contract

Sexually?

This squad reminds me of what Jackett was handed after *that* January transfer window, especially in midfield where we lost one of the top CMs in the division and replaced with someone who we're told isn't ready to be thrown fully into first team football yet

essexfootball wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 1:23 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:03 pm Its our business model now and one people have called for us to have for a long time, like Peterborough.

Peterborough spend money though and invest, they sign top young players from League Two and below

Correct, Orient want to follow that model but without spending any money so we're getting the first time loanee esque players that take a year to get used to the level. All very well if you have some nous in there with them but look at the last 30 mins of both of our first two games and the lack of experience in midfield shows

Oliver Norwood set to sign for Stockport County after being let go by Sheffield Utd. Just the type of experienced midfielder we could do with but sadly cannot get!
https://www.footballinsider247.com/excl ... ited-exit/

Exactly. Orient left looking on again. I don’t want to go back to the days when our opponents always dominated us in midfield . It only really stopped when Idris arrived . He was the midfielder we were crying out for. Now we need somebody else roughly the same as him

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 4:54 pm This squad reminds me of what Jackett was handed after *that* January transfer window, especially in midfield where we lost one of the top CMs in the division and replaced with someone who we're told isn't ready to be thrown fully into first team football yet

essexfootball wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 1:23 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:03 pm Its our business model now and one people have called for us to have for a long time, like Peterborough.

Peterborough spend money though and invest, they sign top young players from League Two and below

Correct, Orient want to follow that model but without spending any money so we're getting the first time loanee esque players that take a year to get used to the level. All very well if you have some nous in there with them but look at the last 30 mins of both of our first two games and the lack of experience in midfield shows

How much money do you think it is sustainable for the club to lose? We are already living well beyond our means.

Peterborough have cracked that niche for well over a decade now, and have done so by investing heavily at the start of implementing that model. If it were a simple case of replicating what they do, many other clubs would have done it.

I'm not saying we've nailed our recruitment this summer (it's ludicrously early to start doing a post mortem 2 very tight defeats against 2 of the biggest budgets at our level), but we are a lower mid table sized club in a league of teams with massive budgets.

Fellowo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 1:04 pm It's just Richie finding an excuse.

Peterborough had a young squad last season and done OK and imagine they'll have a young squad this season too.

End of the day it doesn't matter how old you are, what matters is how good you are and the willingness to learn.

This 100%. He needs to have an excuse ready for when we play reasonably well, but ultimately lose late in the game tomorrow. Some of our better players in recent years have been the inexperienced ones.

Our inability to complete with other League One clubs in the transfer market this Summer has been a big disappointment for me . However I fully understand we can only spend what we can afford. Still paying a chunk of Moncur’s and pigott’s wages is a mill stone around our neck when we can least afford it.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:22 pm
I'm not saying we've nailed our recruitment this summer (it's ludicrously early to start doing a post mortem 2 very tight defeats against 2 of the biggest budgets at our level), but we are a lower mid table sized club in a league of teams with massive budgets.

It's the manner that's concerning especially bringing on 5 subs last game and each one weakened the respective area they were brought on to assist.

Supposedly there's a 10% budget increase over last season but you look at the squad and it's dropped in experience and average age. Where's all that budget going?

At the start of summer the one thing I hoped to see was a strong spine of new permanent GK, CM and another senior pro ST to cover Agyei. Didn't get any of those and weakened LB too. A few incomings could make it look a lot healthier but seems they aren't forthcoming.

What price our L1 status is the bigger question? Has a feel that the board / DoF are gambling on a bargain basement approach having just enough to stay up and then next season... not sure what the plan is as half the squad will need to be replaced again