Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I see Boris wants to strengthen his grip on this and Diane Abbot is saying it could cause riots etc

Personally I think if you’ve got nothing to hide then it’s only a few minutes out your life
As long as it policed properly and fairly of course

How do others on the board see it

I don’t have a problem with it at all so long as it’s implemented fairly and monitored fully.

Unless they approach it in a different way, taking advice from minorities and young blacks people in under developed areas, then it will just be seen as persecution of specific groups of people and make relations worse.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:44 pm Unless they approach it in a different way, taking advice from minorities and young blacks people in under developed areas, then it will just be seen as persecution of specific groups of people and make relations worse.

Agreed that’s my biggest worry about the whole idea

I get stopped and searched regular as clockwork when I go to football. As do my kids.
Don't like it but have put up with it.

I agree with it in principle but you can never make it consistent and fair, people’s conscious and unconscious bias will always prevail.

The white privilege is already strong on this thread.

Just for the record I ain’t white
Your point being?

My opinion ( not that it matters ) is that the old bill are racist and stop far more blacks than whites for searches

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:58 pm The white privilege is already strong on this thread.

People spill the same colour blood when stabbed.

BIGRON wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:03 am My opinion ( not that it matters ) is that the old bill are racist and stop far more blacks than whites for searches

Could that be because far more black people carry knives than white people? Application of evidence based stops and searches? Nothing to do with racism, but to do with the nature of the stops

Last time I checked the majority of people stabbing it each in London were not called Timothy or Sarah. By all means try and sort out the root causes of the problems but until then the ethnic minorities will have to suck it up. White privilege? Like what are now 2-4 year prison sentences for throwing a single punch at a football match (majority white). That kind of privilege?

Don't see what the problem is.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:30 am

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:58 pm The white privilege is already strong on this thread.

People spill the same colour blood when stabbed.

Deep, man.

I don't care if stop and search upsets the ethnic minorities, limp wristed sandal wearers, raving looney socialists or Proposition Joe and his ilk. If it brings down knife crime and saves another life, black, white, whatever then another Mum, Dad is not grieving, that is all that matters

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:35 pm I don’t have a problem with it at all so long as it’s implemented fairly and monitored fully.

I think the problem is that it isn’t and won’t be.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:49 am White privilege? Like what are now 2-4 year prison sentences for throwing a single punch at a football match (majority white). That kind of privilege?

#PRAY4OTF

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:46 am I don't care if stop and search upsets the ethnic minorities, limp wristed sandal wearers, raving looney socialists or Proposition Joe and his ilk. If it brings down knife crime and saves another life, black, white, whatever then another Mum, Dad is not grieving, that is all that matters

Do you think it's as simple as that? More stop and searches = less knife crime ?

What about the kids who get stopped constantly, over and over, with nothing on them but they are the 'wrong' skin colour. Do you think that might change their attitude to the police and authority down the line?

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:33 am

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:46 am I don't care if stop and search upsets the ethnic minorities, limp wristed sandal wearers, raving looney socialists or Proposition Joe and his ilk. If it brings down knife crime and saves another life, black, white, whatever then another Mum, Dad is not grieving, that is all that matters

Do you think it's as simple as that? More stop and searches = less knife crime ?

What about the kids who get stopped constantly, over and over, with nothing on them but they are the 'wrong' skin colour. Do you think that might change their attitude to the police and authority down the line?

Depends on the way in which the stops are carried out. I’m sure the days of inherent racism within the Met are long gone.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:33 am

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:46 am I don't care if stop and search upsets the ethnic minorities, limp wristed sandal wearers, raving looney socialists or Proposition Joe and his ilk. If it brings down knife crime and saves another life, black, white, whatever then another Mum, Dad is not grieving, that is all that matters

Do you think it's as simple as that? More stop and searches = less knife crime ?

What about the kids who get stopped constantly, over and over, with nothing on them but they are the 'wrong' skin colour. Do you think that might change their attitude to the police and authority down the line?

Of course people think it's that simple.

More Police = less crime.
More stop and search = less crime.
More prisons = less crime.
Longer sentences = less crime.
More hangings = less crime.

The fact that statistical and empirical evidence largely debunks all of these solutions is of course neither here nor there.

There was a guy on the radio earlier whose opinion on this matter wasn't anywhere near as worthless as all the posts on this thread so far. That was because he was a policeman and had done some research using the Mets own facts and figures.

Only 5% of stop and searches yield a knife or other weapon. Therefore, 95% of the community are being harassed for no reason.

He made the point that without good relations with the community there can be no intelligence based policing and all stop and search will achieve is to alienate communities. Without their cooperation to identify the criminals the cops approach will be reduced to fire fighting, rushing about all over the place with blues and twos turned up full blast.

It's a simple fact that successful policing can only take place with the consent of the community.

Black guy I used to work with had the same name as a well known Britpop icon and said every time he got pulled over by Old Bill and gave them his name they went mental and gave him loads of grief about mugging them off until he pulled his ID out. I thought it was a relatively funny anecdote until he added just how many times this happened and how many times he'd 'randomly' get pulled over. Wasn't that funny after that.

A third of stops and searches uncover something relevant

These are called “positive outcome” searches—which refers to any case where action is taken against people who’ve been stopped and searched. This includes arrest cases but also covers other resolutions like warnings and Penalty Notices. All cases where there isn’t a positive outcome are called “No Further Actions”.

Across England and Wales 30% of stops and searches had a positive outcome in 2017/18.

https://fullfact.org/crime/stop-and-sea ... and-wales/

The point here is that Boris isn’t concerned whether stop & search works or not, or if it damages ongoing community relations. This is all about posturing to the blue rinsers in prep for a General Election - nothing more.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:05 am Black guy I used to work with had the same name as a well known Britpop icon and said every time he got pulled over by Old Bill and gave them his name they went mental and gave him loads of grief about mugging them off until he pulled his ID out. I thought it was a relatively funny anecdote until he added just how many times this happened and how many times he'd 'randomly' get pulled over. Wasn't that funny after that.

In fairness to the cops. Justine Frischmann is not a normal name for a bloke.