Independent Leyton Orient Forum

How long will it be before we see this kind of thing happening at LOFC ??
It’s sheer Greed of the PL clubs and I would hope that fans ‘vote with their feet’ but sadly I think that’s unlikely

You’d be naive to think this conversation hasn’t been had at Orient. They want day trippers at the club because they’re more likely to spend more and have an ‘experience’, hence the capping of season tickets and the obsession with the nee flats going up nearby.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 6:33 am You’d be naive to think this conversation hasn’t been had at Orient. They want day trippers at the club because they’re more likely to spend more and have an ‘experience’, hence the capping of season tickets and the obsession with the nee flats going up nearby.

This.

I filled out the clubs’s season review form and realised, commercially, that I’m the worst type of fan for the club.

I arrive at the ground 5 minutes before kick off, don’t buy merchandise or use the catering, will never use a fan zone and buy a programme once a season (last match, as a record of the campaign).

‘All’ I put in annually is my STH cost. That used to be seen as enough but now they want an additional 20-30 quid of all of us each match.

LPE wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 7:03 am

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 6:33 am You’d be naive to think this conversation hasn’t been had at Orient. They want day trippers at the club because they’re more likely to spend more and have an ‘experience’, hence the capping of season tickets and the obsession with the nee flats going up nearby.

This.

I filled out the clubs’s season review form and realised, commercially, that I’m the worst type of fan for the club.

I arrive at the ground 5 minutes before kick off, don’t buy merchandise or use the catering, will never use a fan zone and buy a programme once a season (last match, as a record of the campaign).

‘All’ I put in annually is my STH cost. That used to be seen as enough but now they want an additional 20-30 quid of all of us each match.

Only slightly different from my own match day "experience" I buy a few programmes a season and sometimes a half time drink
There again they have had my money for over 50 years so probably done ok out of me over the years.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 6:33 am You’d be naive to think this conversation hasn’t been had at Orient. They want day trippers at the club because they’re more likely to spend more and have an ‘experience’, hence the capping of season tickets and the obsession with the nee flats going up nearby.

No doubt that conversation has taken place.

They’ve probably held on going all guns blazing at it as I’m sure they’re smart enough to envisage the number of ‘day trippers’ wanting to rock up and watch Piggott huff and puff v Shrewsbury has its limits.

However I’m not even sure these ‘stroke the day tripper, alienate the core support’ tactic will work long term even in the Prem long term.
Clubs do know that fans are obsessed though and will pretty much pay whatever asked to watch.
I’ve heard of fans putting tickets on credit cards to pay for it all which strikes me as profligate in the extreme (unless paid off before interest accrues).

They’ve probably held on going all guns blazing at it as I’m sure they’re smart enough to envisage the number of ‘day trippers’ wanting to rock up and watch Piggott huff and puff v Shrewsbury has its limits.

All clubs are trying to "monetise" their grounds more. For us its called "improving the matchday experience" because we are behind the times - hence the east stand makeover this summer. The club is trying to entice us to spend more money in the ground by doing this; its not forcing us. I'm not sure the food will ever be up to a standard that makes anyone a regular consumer of its delights, but the beer and pre match atmosphere may mean many more people spending that few quid more that the club are seeking.

I think as a club we benefit from the prem's greed. Kids can't go and so turn away from West Ham, Spurs and Arsenal. That's partly why our youth movement is so good right now - but it does depend on the performances as opposed to the facilities.

Still think my season ticket is good value and with costs rising all over the place I can understand the need to increase prices - I don't have an issue with it. Fans can't have it both ways better facilities, better players etc, it comes at a cost which the club has to meet. But that said the club can't have it both ways either, they have to find better ways to offer a value product and IMHO there is still a lot to be done commercially, putting up the price for matchday dining wasn't a great idea as I understand take up was initially well down on the previous season and they only sold out at times by having cut price offers, I think it shows that you can't take liberties with loyal fans.

As LittleMate says we have benefitted from more youngsters which is great to see, they have improved the atmosphere no end I think the club need to find a way to enlarge that group of fans maybe extend (not physically)that end section of the South stand for the youngsters to sit/stand/sing in. They were brilliant away from home too- credit to them.

Like last season the cap and early deadline on season tickets will ensure money up front this season, good for the club as long as we play well and get favourable results. If we do they will continue to sell out with casual fans/walk ups/ and good away followings. If we struggle it may be different.

This process has been happening for ages.

Thankfully there are still some clubs with good values.

"Borussia Dortmund INVITED the 519 club employees and the members of the children's categories to the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL at Wembley. From the cleaning team to the managers, as well as from the U-12 to U-19 teams, they will travel with ALL EXPENSES paid."

COME ON DORTMUND!!!

Bergen wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 9:58 am Thankfully there are still some clubs with good values.

"Borussia Dortmund INVITED the 519 club employees and the members of the children's categories to the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL at Wembley. From the cleaning team to the managers, as well as from the U-12 to U-19 teams, they will travel with ALL EXPENSES paid."

COME ON DORTMUND!!!

Fantastic gesture, our big clubs should take note although I doubt they will.
Think I read a few years ago that season tickets at Bayern were a very reasonable price, around £300 or something, maybe even less.
Well done Dortmund.

Interesting from Mr. Maguire:

Under 14’s season tickets at Wolves have gone up 176% and it’s £3000 a season in Fulham’s new stand

A friend of mine has just renewed his season ticket at Charlton and he has to buy a voucher for £56 on top of his ticket.
The voucher is then exchangeable for food and drink within the stadium on a match day .
How long before ‘Nigel’ tries this with our fans ??

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 4:55 pm A friend of mine has just renewed his season ticket at Charlton and he has to buy a voucher for £56 on top of his ticket.
The voucher is then exchangeable for food and drink within the stadium on a match day .
How long before ‘Nigel’ tries this with our fans ??

This is a bit underhand, but to some extent, would I mind this at LOFC?- maybe not.
I don't drink alcohol but will always buy coffee at least, and sometimes for the people I sit with too - it would easily come to £56 a season - likely more.

I'd probably buy food too but try to ensure I'm not hungry when I get to the ground as I don't personally want a burger/hot dog or want to navigate eating pie/mash out of a tray when I can't sit at a table - others don't care of course and that's fine but I'll normally buy a (fresh) panini on the HIgh Rd with chicken and salad etc.
If the club did this sort of thing I'd buy it at the club - they don't, and I'm not gonna apologise or feel guilty for buying it elsewhere.

Just as I'm not gonna apologise for not going to Every game (as a season ticket holder), when I've already paid for it.
If the club want to phase out my "type" of season-ticket holder, then fine - be honest and tell me exactly that and I'll stop buying it- it's that simple.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 4:55 pm A friend of mine has just renewed his season ticket at Charlton and he has to buy a voucher for £56 on top of his ticket.
The voucher is then exchangeable for food and drink within the stadium on a match day .
How long before ‘Nigel’ tries this with our fans ??

In Belgium and Holland a decade ago it was to an extent cashless. You had to buy club tokens (value €1 each) at par from a machine. From there you bought food and drink. Think the minimum was €5 - so I have some spare tokens somewhere in the house.

I can see us (football fans generally) having to pre-load cards to spend £££ in the not too distant future. Its a way of getting more ££ from us up front.

LittleMate wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 5:04 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 4:55 pm A friend of mine has just renewed his season ticket at Charlton and he has to buy a voucher for £56 on top of his ticket.
The voucher is then exchangeable for food and drink within the stadium on a match day .
How long before ‘Nigel’ tries this with our fans ??

In Belgium and Holland a decade ago it was to an extent cashless. You had to buy club tokens (value €1 each) at par from a machine. From there you bought food and drink. Think the minimum was €5 - so I have some spare tokens somewhere in the house.

I can see us (football fans generally) having to pre-load cards to spend £££ in the not too distant future. Its a way of getting more ££ from us up front.

Not sure O’s fans would be happy to pay in advance by pre-loading cards in this way. We sit in the Legends Lounge and the food offerings in there are very limited as is the seating.
I would eat in there if I knew in advance that food was available at a reasonable price but until then we’ll stick with the Lion and Key where a nice main and a beer is around £20-25 and I can sit at a table.
(They often seem to run out of hot food in the LL bar. )

If I knew food was available or I could pre-book hot food, then maybe, but the club need to provide better facilities to entice fans in if they want us to spend more money in the ground pre-match.

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 12:26 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 4:55 pm A friend of mine has just renewed his season ticket at Charlton and he has to buy a voucher for £56 on top of his ticket.
The voucher is then exchangeable for food and drink within the stadium on a match day .
How long before ‘Nigel’ tries this with our fans ??

This is a bit underhand, but to some extent, would I mind this at LOFC?- maybe not.
I don't drink alcohol but will always buy coffee at least, and sometimes for the people I sit with too - it would easily come to £56 a season - likely more.

I'd probably buy food too but try to ensure I'm not hungry when I get to the ground as I don't personally want a burger/hot dog or want to navigate eating pie/mash out of a tray when I can't sit at a table - others don't care of course and that's fine but I'll normally buy a (fresh) panini on the HIgh Rd with chicken and salad etc.
If the club did this sort of thing I'd buy it at the club - they don't, and I'm not gonna apologise or feel guilty for buying it elsewhere.

Just as I'm not gonna apologise for not going to Every game (as a season ticket holder), when I've already paid for it.
If the club want to phase out my "type" of season-ticket holder, then fine - be honest and tell me exactly that and I'll stop buying it- it's that simple.

Most games I turn up just before kick off and leave after the game due to family commitments. Might grab a Coke and chips or a pint in the SS bar a few times a season. Appreciate not everyone is the same but if I had to pay an additional £50 tax on advance food/drink it'd 100% be a deal-breaker and I wouldn't renew. I come to see the football and chat with my friends, being forced to consume below average food and drink isn't part of the deal.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 4:55 pm A friend of mine has just renewed his season ticket at Charlton and he has to buy a voucher for £56 on top of his ticket.
The voucher is then exchangeable for food and drink within the stadium on a match day .
How long before ‘Nigel’ tries this with our fans ??

Absolute liberty. More fool Charlton fans for suffering this.

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 12:26 pm Just as I'm not gonna apologise for not going to Every game (as a season ticket holder), when I've already paid for it.
If the club want to phase out my "type" of season-ticket holder, then fine - be honest and tell me exactly that and I'll stop buying it- it's that simple.

If you simply put your seat back on sale via the Exchange system, there's no issue.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:56 pm

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 12:26 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 4:55 pm A friend of mine has just renewed his season ticket at Charlton and he has to buy a voucher for £56 on top of his ticket.
The voucher is then exchangeable for food and drink within the stadium on a match day .
How long before ‘Nigel’ tries this with our fans ??

This is a bit underhand, but to some extent, would I mind this at LOFC?- maybe not.
I don't drink alcohol but will always buy coffee at least, and sometimes for the people I sit with too - it would easily come to £56 a season - likely more.

I'd probably buy food too but try to ensure I'm not hungry when I get to the ground as I don't personally want a burger/hot dog or want to navigate eating pie/mash out of a tray when I can't sit at a table - others don't care of course and that's fine but I'll normally buy a (fresh) panini on the HIgh Rd with chicken and salad etc.
If the club did this sort of thing I'd buy it at the club - they don't, and I'm not gonna apologise or feel guilty for buying it elsewhere.

Just as I'm not gonna apologise for not going to Every game (as a season ticket holder), when I've already paid for it.
If the club want to phase out my "type" of season-ticket holder, then fine - be honest and tell me exactly that and I'll stop buying it- it's that simple.

Most games I turn up just before kick off and leave after the game due to family commitments. Might grab a Coke and chips or a pint in the SS bar a few times a season. Appreciate not everyone is the same but if I had to pay an additional £50 tax on advance food/drink it'd 100% be a deal-breaker and I wouldn't renew. I come to see the football and chat with my friends, being forced to consume below average food and drink isn't part of the deal.

To my mind at least, that's totally fair enough PJ.
I think most can agree that if the food and drink were better, they'd be more likely to buy it, and it should be fine if you just don't want it..

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 7:10 pm

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 12:26 pm Just as I'm not gonna apologise for not going to Every game (as a season ticket holder), when I've already paid for it.
If the club want to phase out my "type" of season-ticket holder, then fine - be honest and tell me exactly that and I'll stop buying it- it's that simple.

If you simply put your seat back on sale via the Exchange system, there's no issue.

I always do that. Though have occassionally forgotten.
Never received any money - though neither am I gonna chase for it- if the club can sell the seat "twice" then good luck to them.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:35 pm

LittleMate wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 5:04 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 4:55 pm A friend of mine has just renewed his season ticket at Charlton and he has to buy a voucher for £56 on top of his ticket.
The voucher is then exchangeable for food and drink within the stadium on a match day .
How long before ‘Nigel’ tries this with our fans ??

In Belgium and Holland a decade ago it was to an extent cashless. You had to buy club tokens (value €1 each) at par from a machine. From there you bought food and drink. Think the minimum was €5 - so I have some spare tokens somewhere in the house.

I can see us (football fans generally) having to pre-load cards to spend £££ in the not too distant future. Its a way of getting more ££ from us up front.

Not sure O’s fans would be happy to pay in advance by pre-loading cards in this way. We sit in the Legends Lounge and the food offerings in there are very limited as is the seating.
I would eat in there if I knew in advance that food was available at a reasonable price but until then we’ll stick with the Lion and Key where a nice main and a beer is around £20-25 and I can sit at a table.
(They often seem to run out of hot food in the LL bar. )

If I knew food was available or I could pre-book hot food, then maybe, but the club need to provide better facilities to entice fans in if they want us to spend more money in the ground pre-match.

My European experience was that they were for small disbursements. If you are eating a meal in the gallery thats a different prospect. The thing I can see overcoming this type of experience is the advent of contactless. It will all be down to the costs of processing payments. These days cash is by far the most costly to process because of its handling.

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:17 pm

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 7:10 pm

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 12:26 pm Just as I'm not gonna apologise for not going to Every game (as a season ticket holder), when I've already paid for it.
If the club want to phase out my "type" of season-ticket holder, then fine - be honest and tell me exactly that and I'll stop buying it- it's that simple.

If you simply put your seat back on sale via the Exchange system, there's no issue.

I always do that. Though have occassionally forgotten.
Never received any money - though neither am I gonna chase for it- if the club can sell the seat "twice" then good luck to them.

So if your seat didn’t sell, it wasn’t one of the ‘sold out’ games. The club don’t have an issue with that. (Although would obviously prefer you to be there).

The problem is with ST holders not attending sold out games and not relisting their seats on the exchange, so willing customers are unable to get in.