Independent Leyton Orient Forum

https://www.theguardian.com/money/artic ... ss-renting

Landlords are having to sell up, forcing 2,000 families per month into homelessness. How can this be happening in this day and age?

I only skimmed that article, but I don't think it mentions the increasing rates of mortgage defaults by the BTL crowd. Added to those who are selling up is contributing to the housing crisis.

As I mentioned previously on another thread, this period of adjustment to normal interest rates was likely to lead to a short- to mid-term worsening of housing supply to the most vulnerable. Oh, and, new construction starts are also crashing.

Without serious state intervention and a wholesale shift in the national housing strategy, we're going to end up in a worse position than we are now.

Why dont they just jack the rent up to pay the mortgage?

How and why are BTLers defaulting?

Because the link between rents and earnings has now gone beyond breaking point.

Many BTL'ers have been caught out be interest rate increases, maintenance costs and loss of tax incentives. It's just no longer viable as an investment.

As an investment model, BTL was always reliant on low interest rates and continued rental growth. Many BTL landlords were working on pretty tight margins to start with.

Not that I have enormous sympathy in that direction. Most will soften the blow by selling up having made an increase on capital value over the period between buying and selling.

Rents are totally unsustainable though. We fell off the property owning ladder in 2007 as we needed to sell our house to fund our business and couldn’t afford to buy again until 2018. During that time our rental commitments went up from £1200 per month to £2,500 whilst increased property prices meant our house purchase in 2018 was over double what we’d sold our last house for. Admittedly we bought a bigger place than what we’d sold but if I’d bought our old house back, it would’ve cost £150k more than we sold it for. I can tell you our earnings during that period didn’t increase at anywhere near the same rate.


During those 11 years, we rented 6 houses. Bar one, every landlord was a BTL landlord. All of them were a nightmare to deal with in terms of repairs and maintenance and every renewal was at a considerable hike from the last.

The system is fundamentally broken. Until the state intervenes and creates more housing, expect to see more homelessness - even for those who can afford a reasonable rent.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 8:27 am Because the link between rents and earnings has now gone beyond breaking point.

Many BTL'ers have been caught out be interest rate increases, maintenance costs and loss of tax incentives. It's just no longer viable as an investment.

Rent money is no longer covering their costs?

What sort of costs do BTLers have?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've always seen it as a golden goose, tonnes of money for very little work which you can just get an agency to do. Unsurprisingly, every man and his dog wanted to do this, ignoring that they're exploiting people less fortunate than themselves.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:04 am What sort of costs do BTLers have?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've always seen it as a golden goose, tonnes of money for very little work which you can just get an agency to do. Unsurprisingly, every man and his dog wanted to do this, ignoring that they're exploiting people less fortunate than themselves.

That's capitalism baby!

How is this causing homelessness?

THE HOUSE IS STILL THERE?!?

I guess its not available for rent

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjq5qxlgy39o

Woman sleeping on a park bench, even though she could live with her kids?

This could easily happen to anybody renting.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:30 am I guess its not available for rent

So it's sitting there, empty? Who did the landlord sell it to?

No idea. Someone bought it to live in?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:36 am No idea. Someone bought it to live in?

And what about the house they used to live in?

Landlords selling up doesn't reduce the housing stock.

“With the mother/daughter relationship strained”
understating it somewhat, considering the story suggests she’s been kicked out of the house to sleep on a park bench at 60

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:38 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:36 am No idea. Someone bought it to live in?

And what about the house they used to live in?

Landlords selling up doesn't reduce the housing stock.

Maybe they came from abroad? FTB?

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:38 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:36 am No idea. Someone bought it to live in?

And what about the house they used to live in?

Landlords selling up doesn't reduce the housing stock.

Just as their frequent claim that they are "providing housing" is complete poo poo - the property was there before they bought it, and it will be there after they sell it.

Borrowing other people's money, and using the labour of other people to pay off the debt. It brings precious little value to society whatsoever.

CEB wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:41 am “With the mother/daughter relationship strained”
understating it somewhat, considering the story suggests she’s been kicked out of the house to sleep on a park bench at 60

Think the council my be right with this one. She's got three kids, must be able to stay with one of them. Not had a job in 4 years. I dont know why someone would let their mum sleep on a park bench.

OyinbO wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:53 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:38 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:36 am No idea. Someone bought it to live in?

And what about the house they used to live in?

Landlords selling up doesn't reduce the housing stock.

Just as their frequent claim that they are "providing housing" is complete poo poo - the property was there before they bought it, and it will be there after they sell it.

Borrowing other people's money, and using the labour of other people to pay off the debt. It brings precious little value to society whatsoever.

Which is why under my regime private landlordism would be illegal and offenders subject to a minimum10 years hard labour. Some may say this is harsh but there must be a deterrent.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:51 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:38 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:36 am No idea. Someone bought it to live in?

And what about the house they used to live in?

Landlords selling up doesn't reduce the housing stock.

Maybe they came from abroad? FTB?

So if there is a first time buyer or immigrant, we already needed an additional home for them?

OyinbO wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:53 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:38 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:36 am No idea. Someone bought it to live in?

And what about the house they used to live in?

Landlords selling up doesn't reduce the housing stock.

Just as their frequent claim that they are "providing housing" is complete poo poo - the property was there before they bought it, and it will be there after they sell it.

Borrowing other people's money, and using the labour of other people to pay off the debt. It brings precious little value to society whatsoever.

I'd say it brings no value, and could easily be argued it brings harm to society and is a negative.

New people need homes, yes.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 8:27 am Because the link between rents and earnings has now gone beyond breaking point.

Many BTL'ers have been caught out be interest rate increases, maintenance costs and loss of tax incentives. It's just no longer viable as an investment.

As a landlord of 2 properties, I can say that the biggest issue has been the removal of the tax allowance on mortgage interest payments.

I am now committed to getting out of this business as are many others landlords. Its the result of unintended consequences and people who have to rent are suffering through lack of properties and higher rents.

DuvB wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 10:36 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 8:27 am Because the link between rents and earnings has now gone beyond breaking point.

Many BTL'ers have been caught out be interest rate increases, maintenance costs and loss of tax incentives. It's just no longer viable as an investment.

As a landlord of 2 properties, I can say that the biggest issue has been the removal of the tax allowance on mortgage interest payments.

I am now committed to getting out of this business as are many others landlords. Its the result of unintended consequences and people who have to rent are suffering through lack of properties and higher rents.

Why did you become a landlord?

DuvB wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 10:36 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 8:27 am Because the link between rents and earnings has now gone beyond breaking point.

Many BTL'ers have been caught out be interest rate increases, maintenance costs and loss of tax incentives. It's just no longer viable as an investment.

As a landlord of 2 properties, I can say that the biggest issue has been the removal of the tax allowance on mortgage interest payments.

I am now committed to getting out of this business as are many others landlords. Its the result of unintended consequences and people who have to rent are suffering through lack of properties and higher rents.

It's not a business in the true sense of the word which is why it is right that the tax deduction for interest has been removed.

This is a good thing for the economy as it unlocks capital which can then be invested more productively in businesses that have generous tax incentives to do so.

Why do greedy capitalists always need our money given through tax incentives to mitigate THEIR risk? Its a funny old ill divid world.