Independent Leyton Orient Forum

About time they had a vote on it.

Surely there won't be any clubs that will be in favour of continuing with it.

https://www.sportbible.com/football/pre ... 6-20240515

Wolves have put out a very diplomatically written and accurate statement about why they want it scrapped and I agree with them.

VAR is sucking the soul out the game and has deviated so far from its original mission statement of correcting "clear and obvious errors" it needs to be removed.

PGMOL also needs disbanding and the FA start again with a new organisation and structure. Standards of refereeing are getting worse and the disconnect between those who play the game and those officiating it is huge.

RW's comments this year have been bang on the money but the PGMOL approach of clamping down on dissent only works further against them. Reform required badly for next season.

God I hope so

Its very dull

I think they need to be more lenient with most of the rules

No chance it will be scrapped.

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 7:29 pm Wolves have put out a very diplomatically written and accurate statement about why they want it scrapped and I agree with them.

VAR is sucking the soul out the game and has deviated so far from its original mission statement of correcting "clear and obvious errors" it needs to be removed.

PGMOL also needs disbanding and the FA start again with a new organisation and structure. Standards of refereeing are getting worse and the disconnect between those who play the game and those officiating it is huge.

RW's comments this year have been bang on the money but the PGMOL approach of clamping down on dissent only works further against them. Reform required badly for next season.

Refs always seem to get the blame but what about those players that feign injury ,rolling over and over trying to get their fellow pro booked/sent off . It makes it real hard for a ref to make a correct decision . Players are such hypocrites' and it's those players that need more severe bans .

It should be but it won't.

Scotchlandshire has the Poundland version of VAR and it has led to some almighty cockups.

Can’t see it being scrapped but enough club’s kick up it will probably be reformed/scaled back. The fact it relies on a couple of guys looking at screen and there’s not better technology out there that can decide offsides in a split second is mind blowing.

It’s so nice watching a game without it. But the problem is the refs and linos rely on it so much I think their performance has suffered. And a few months after it’s scraped and big decision is missed for a big club there will be crying from the same fans, pundits, managers who slagged it off

Really can’t see where the issue is. Odd bit of controversy, rather than constant controversy. Keep it and have someone incisive and pragmatic operating it.

There have been many occasions where VAR has corrected a referees bad decision, these occasions go undiscussed. ON FAR LESS OCCASIONS, VAR has turned a right decision into a wrong one. I think the negativity against VAR is mainly for two reasons. Often it just agrees with the referees bad decision when it shouldn't, no worse than VAR not being there. Secondly fans disagree with how the rules are being reinterpreted, e.g. for the likes of handball, or offsides by a millimetre. Not VARs fault. How can giving referees technology to make better decisions not be a good idea. Unfortunately incompetent referees under time pressure still make bad decisions even with VAR to assist. I just want games to end with the right result despite referee incompetence, and personally I'm prepared to suffer a delay until things are checked and hopefully corrected if necessary.

I like wrong decisions in football, adds an element to the game that var is taking out. I still remember the games where we got robbed by an awful ref 30+ years ago!

Exactly. Anything that adds to the misery adds to the emotional impact, which is what gets people invested in the game and their clubs. This is something the executives have never understood. They saw these as issues to be solved, and not to be endlessly argued over on forums or over several pints of warm ale.

It was clubs like Wolves who called out for ‘technology’ to help Referees in the past, and now that we have it, they don’t like it.
I also don’t like it either and am glad we don’t have it in League One, but these PL clubs should remember that Referees made mistakes before and will do again.

I would be happy if offside was decided not by a toenail but there being clear ‘daylight’ between an attacking player and the defender. Maybe VAR just needs to be tweaked and speeded up to keep most people happy.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 7:39 am It was clubs like Wolves who called out for ‘technology’ to help Referees in the past, and now that we have it, they don’t like it.
I also don’t like it either and am glad we don’t have it in League One, but these PL clubs should remember that Referees made mistakes before and will do again.

I would be happy if offside was decided not by a toenail but there being clear ‘daylight’ between an attacking player and the defender. Maybe VAR just needs to be tweaked and speeded up to keep most people happy.

You can make an excuse for a referee getting a decision wrong in real-time getting one view of a situation.

What's been absolutely disgraceful this year is VAR having multiple angles, slow-mo, plenty of time to review and still getting some very basic decisions so badly wrong even incompetence doesn't seem a fitting explanation. Something is very wrong with those operating it (PGMOL) and given their arrogance at how they've dealt with criticism seems to me the lot needs scrapping and starting again.

For a technology done well see goal-line decision system. That's only had one issue in the entire time it's been in (Villa ghost goal) and works smoothly not breaking the flow of the game.

Problem is that it's created the expectation that we'd get somehow objective, automated decision making that eliminates human error. Which is impossible. So many of the rules in football are by nature subjective. And the biggest issue with var is that the definition of clear and obvious error is also subjective. So you have a subjective assessment of whether the original subjective decision was so wrong that it warrants a second subjective look. Consistency is absolutely impossible as a result.

Managers being incapable of accepting that refs are as fallible as their own teams is the really annoying thing. Imagine if a ref came out post game and threw pelters at how the team was set up or the quality of players. It's absurd. Var has made this sense of victimhood even worse.

If they do keep it the offside decision making has to be looked at imo. Being offside by a toenail is ridiculous,there has to be some distance between the attacking and defensive player,what ever happened to giving the offensive player the advantage when level.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 7:39 am It was clubs like Wolves who called out for ‘technology’ to help Referees in the past, and now that we have it, they don’t like it.
I also don’t like it either and am glad we don’t have it in League One, but these PL clubs should remember that Referees made mistakes before and will do again.

I would be happy if offside was decided not by a toenail but there being clear ‘daylight’ between an attacking player and the defender. Maybe VAR just needs to be tweaked and speeded up to keep most people happy.

You can understand clubs like Wolves calling out for it, when time and time again, decisions go against teams like them in favour of the big clubs.

I don't think anyone expected that bias to continue when decisions are made remotely.

The biggest problem with VAR isn’t even when it gets things wrong, IMO. The issue is that it contributes significantly and unduly to the momentum of a match.

Example - a team scores a goal. There’s a few moments of celebration, the team that conceded and the fans adjust to being a goal down… and then the screen flashes up, “checking goal, possible offside”. Lengthy check. Two minutes later, the goal is ruled out. The fans of the team that “conceded” celebrate like an equaliser. Momentum of the match shifts instantly in favour of the team who “conceded”. In effect, VAR becomes (for the fans in the ground) almost a mini game played remotely that the fans don’t get to see.

The impact of instances like that are disproportionate to what VAR was brought in to do, and has an effect way beyond, say a lino flagging for offside in the second after a goal went in.
For me, that’s the big issue.

Another frustration with it is the laws are being tweaked and changed to suit VAR which is a dangerous road to go down and is partly to blame for the confusion over what constitutes handball for example.

For me, the biggest issue is how it sucks out the emotion. Football has always been a working class game, fans would work all week and then enjoy an away day on home game where you'd meet up with your mates, enjoy the game, go mad when you scored and make the hard week at work worthwhile. It's this lack of spontaneity which is unacceptable, football is a sport and trying to apply something so clinical to it is just wrong.

Get rid for me!

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:22 am If they do keep it the offside decision making has to be looked at imo. Being offside by a toenail is ridiculous,there has to be some distance between the attacking and defensive player,what ever happened to giving the offensive player the advantage when level.

Absolutely right, I think it’s fairer if there’s ‘daylight’ between the attacker and defender, and probably easier for the Assistant Referee to make an accurate decision.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:25 am

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 7:39 am It was clubs like Wolves who called out for ‘technology’ to help Referees in the past, and now that we have it, they don’t like it.
I also don’t like it either and am glad we don’t have it in League One, but these PL clubs should remember that Referees made mistakes before and will do again.

I would be happy if offside was decided not by a toenail but there being clear ‘daylight’ between an attacking player and the defender. Maybe VAR just needs to be tweaked and speeded up to keep most people happy.

You can understand clubs like Wolves calling out for it, when time and time again, decisions go against teams like them in favour of the big clubs.

I don't think anyone expected that bias to continue when decisions are made remotely.

No one has been as unlucky as Coventry were in that fantastic Cup Semi Final.
Some pictures in the paper the following day showed that Wright was actually Onside.
It will be interesting to see what happens to what is a very contentious area .

They will automate offside decisions next year. They already use it in the champions League and it seems to work well, so that in particular won't be an issue.

Genie is out of the bottle now, there is no way they get rid of a system that largely has improved the number of correct big decisions being made.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 10:15 am

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 9:22 am If they do keep it the offside decision making has to be looked at imo. Being offside by a toenail is ridiculous,there has to be some distance between the attacking and defensive player,what ever happened to giving the offensive player the advantage when level.

Absolutely right, I think it’s fairer if there’s ‘daylight’ between the attacker and defender, and probably easier for the Assistant Referee to make an accurate decision.

I agree but on the other hand, that change in the offside laws might make it harder for the linesman to judge what or isnt offside in games where VAR is not in use, that being the vast majority of games played at all levels in the world. After all, linesmen and referees without the use of VAR, have only got a split second to make these decisions. I also find some of the hand ball decisions baffling, its as if they expect defenders to play with their hands and arms tied behind their backs !! Balls hit hard at players from point blank range without a chance to move their arms out of the way and penalties or free kicks given !!

A “daylight” rule still has a tiny margin between “daylight” and “not daylight”.
The issue with the offside rule isn’t where the line is, it’s that the law no longer reflects the spirit of why it exists

Could be time to scrap the offside rule.