Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Probably a fair result but we dominated possession and limited their chances but we have no creativity or threat in the final 3rd.

Brynn - 7 - poor kicking but pulled off a great save in the last second.
Hunt - 5 - don’t like him. Gave the winger numerous opportunities to cross the ball and looked outpaced.
Turns - 6 - loses a mark for giving away the fk that led to their goal but a few vital tackles and looked stronger than usual.
Happe - 7 - solid
James - 5 - didn’t do much wrong before going off. We benefited from his injury as Theo got forward more.
El Miz - 6 - anonymous first half but had a lot of the ball second. Not up to his usual standards.
Brown - 8 - MOTM - the amount of interception and last minute covering tackles was impressive. He’s got really good awareness of danger and save us a few times.
Theo - 7 - bad first half but very involved second. Corners awful but threw over some dangerous balls including the free kick for the goal. Love that he keeps trying.
Sotiriou - 5 - wasn’t his night. They put two players on him tbf but no threat.
Drinan - 6 - don’t like him but did pretty well before the injury. Good defensive work and threw over a couple of good crosses.
Forde - 5 - wasn’t his night.

Subs:
Sweeney - 4 - very disappointing night. Seems to be going backwards
Sanders - 7 - thought he was quietly very good. He makes really good forward runs and creates space for others. Will be a really important player for us and should start.
Ageyi - 6 - lively and his trickery won us the fk for the goal.
Piggot - 5 - didn’t do anything

Richie - 6 - our formation first half didn’t work and allowed their 20 to play in the pocket and they got crosses in at will. Second half, after James got injured Theo didn’t have to worry about defending as much and we improved. I hope he changes things up for the cup.

Ref - 8 - rarely do I say this but he pretty much got everything spot on and let the game flow

Bit too generous imo, would probably take 1 off everyone there. It was a seriously awful football match with players making inexcusable mistakes over and over again. Brown and *maybe* Happe were the only starters to come out with any credit.

Thought Theo and Miz were poor. Yes, they saw a lot of the ball, but it doesn't count for much if they can't use it properly. They were responsible for the corner 1-2 where Theo had to let it go out for a throw because Miz played a short one straight back to him in an offside position, which was comically bad.

Despite clearly being nowhere near fit enough, Agyei showed the difference having a winger with pace and the ability to carry it forwards makes. He caused Rovers issues immediately, made us far less predictable and won the free kick that got us the point. Graham being out for the season shows that the most important signing we can make in January is another winger, preferably a right footed one who can cut in, so that we have some more variety in our attack..

Thought we were good Saturday against Wigan but poor last night. Only a few performed as they can and our goal threat was negligable. But they stuck at it and got a point.

We are lacking experience and leadership in the side, sure we could bring back Pratley or Beccles but neither seem to have the pace for this league unfortunately,there was no accountability when Rovers were through on goal and the defence didn’t ask questions, they just walked back to the positions and on a better day or side we could and should have been punished.Although the goalkeeper is adequate we may need a more experienced keeper to keep the defence on its toes (marshal)more. If we don’t get a win soon the confidence will diminish if it hasn’t already, that’s where wellens needs to earn is money, up until this point he’s had a fairly easy ride.

Agree with most of the ratings.

Brown again, excellent. Backline were mostly strong and Theo never stopped running, trying to get something going for us.

Two main stand out points.

1) It’s blindingly obvious how badly we miss Jordan Graham. I had a feeling at the time with his injury it could derail our season because he’s got that flair and guile we’re now desperately missing. So far, that’s playing out. Ageyi’s sooner return from injury is most welcome and he showed a few flashes last night.

2) I love Richie but the corners last night… Surely after the 7-8th unsuccessful corner from the left in a row, you put a right footed, inswinger on it. Archibald’s constant outswingers (not his fault, he’s very left footed as we know) were so easily mopped up. Rovers probably couldn’t believe their luck as he trotted over time and time again to take a totally predictable non threatening corner.
We then get a set piece from the other side that favours Archibald’s left foot for an inswinger and lo and behold we score. Just simple square pegs in round holes that could be ironed out.

Jman wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:40 am Agree with most of the ratings.

Brown again, excellent. Backline were mostly strong and Theo never stopped running, trying to get something going for us.

Two main stand out points.

1) It’s blindingly obvious how badly we miss Jordan Graham. I had a feeling at the time with his injury it could derail our season because he’s got that flair and guile we’re now desperately missing. So far, that’s playing out. Ageyi’s sooner return from injury is most welcome and he showed a few flashes last night.

2) I love Richie but the corners last night… Surely after the 7-8th unsuccessful corner from the left in a row, you put a right footed, inswinger on it. Archibald’s constant outswingers (not his fault, he’s very left footed as we know) were so easily mopped up. Rovers probably couldn’t believe their luck as he trotted over time and time again to take a totally predictable non threatening corner.
We then get a set piece from the other side that favours Archibald’s left foot for an inswinger and lo and behold we score. Just simple square pegs in round holes that could be ironed out.

This love in for Graham that I’m seeing (in this comment and others) is quite baffling. Yes he put in a few decent shows but the bloke wasn’t even in the starting line up most weeks. And whilst he could whip a ball in 99% of them didn’t lead to a goal anyway and he never scored himself.

Losing him wasn’t good but to claim that he was an integral part of our season is just absurd.

He had 4 assists in the equivalent of 8-9 full games. And the degree to which we're now short of creativity only underlines how integral he was becoming.

Totally agreed about Graham.

He was literally only just getting warmed up. The signs were very encouraging but he hadn't done anything.

It's not that Graham was great, although he was better than most, it's that we had no adequate replacement. We started with three reasonable wingers and ended up with two injured and the other playing in defence.

What we're missing is the player Graham looked like he was about to be. Not what he had been.

As I started to type, this post was going to be tongue in cheek but now I think about it, I'm serious.

Daryl McMahon is a nice guy I'm sure but as a set piece coach? Nah.

With the odd exception, we are terrible (Tom J and Theo) at free kicks and corners. 90% of the time we are inacapable of even clearing the first man. So I suggest we ask James Ward-Prowse (brilliant signing by West Ham) if he would consider a bit of private coaching so that we learn how to take penetrating set pieces that actually set up scoring opportunities. How many times does he drop a corner kick on the head of Soucek (or whoever) who then says thank you by scoring. He could pop along to Chigwell on his day off, paid for by saving the money that's going to the set piece coach.

Graham was getting better with each game and meant other teams had to contend with a threat down both sides. So even if he wasn't at his best, he at least meant they had to account for what was coming down the right wing. Ruel or Drinan at right wing ,or James at wing back, just isn't offering that.

Our best 11 will probably end up being Agyei and Graham as inverted wingers, and we won't have had a chance to play that at any point this season. It's sh*t luck.

Love Archibald and he rightly gets credit for never stopping running, but increasingly a lot of that running is him trying to make up for being out of position. He must be aching for this wing back bollocks to end.

(Edit: when I say it's bollocks, I don't mean the system itself, just him being shoehorned into it as an LWB).

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:12 am Love Archibald and he rightly gets credit for never stopping running, but increasingly a lot of that running is him trying to make up for being out of position. He must be aching for this wing back bollocks to end.

(Edit: when I say it's bollocks, I don't mean the system itself, just him being shoehorned into it as an LWB).

It ended last night, no?

Yes, 4-3-3 last night.

Scratched Record Warning.

But would love to know what Drinnan has on Wellens to start in front of Piggott personally think the latter carries a lot more goal threat than the former.

JimbO wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:48 pm Scratched Record Warning.

But would love to know what Drinnan has on Wellens to start in front of Piggott personally think the latter carries a lot more goal threat than the former.

I thought Pigs did ok on Saturday, stepped up to lead the line well and deserved to start again. However, the change in formation and reverting to a high pressing 4-3-3 meant Drinnan got the nod over him. Pigs can't press.

I'm going to guess that was the reason, rather than Drinnan having something on Richie

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:17 am

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:12 am Love Archibald and he rightly gets credit for never stopping running, but increasingly a lot of that running is him trying to make up for being out of position. He must be aching for this wing back bollocks to end.

(Edit: when I say it's bollocks, I don't mean the system itself, just him being shoehorned into it as an LWB).

It ended last night, no?

Hmm. Ignore me. Point stood until yesterday.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:00 pm

JimbO wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:48 pm Scratched Record Warning.

But would love to know what Drinnan has on Wellens to start in front of Piggott personally think the latter carries a lot more goal threat than the former.

I thought Pigs did ok on Saturday, stepped up to lead the line well and deserved to start again. However, the change in formation and reverting to a high pressing 4-3-3 meant Drinnan got the nod over him. Pigs can't press.

I'm going to guess that was the reason, rather than Drinnan having something on Richie

Both have a point, think on Saturday Wigans back four were weak and we should have had more goals Pigot got more success against the CB can also see the point about pressing last night but for me Sanders would have been a better option on the right. Poor old Drinan try’s his best but he’s just not up to it imo. I’m not sure if Wellens keeps picking him to prove a point that he can’t be pressured by anybody although he doesn’t pick Moncur. Not sure if we will see anymore of Drinan this side of Christmas. Oops just let the C word slip out

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:12 am Love Archibald and he rightly gets credit for never stopping running, but increasingly a lot of that running is him trying to make up for being out of position. He must be aching for this wing back bollocks to end.

(Edit: when I say it's bollocks, I don't mean the system itself, just him being shoehorned into it as an LWB).

It is rather bizarre that we've ended up back at the KJ wingback formation that got him sacked in the end. Shows how important squad depth is to allow RW to play the system he wants to, rather than the one he has to.

It isn't the same system as Jackett's. The midfield are set up differently. We have wound up with a tonne of depth in a position where we now only play with two players (central midfield).

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:27 am We are lacking experience and leadership in the side, sure we could bring back Pratley or Beccles but neither seem to have the pace for this league unfortunately,there was no accountability when Rovers were through on goal and the defence didn’t ask questions, they just walked back to the positions and on a better day or side we could and should have been punished.Although the goalkeeper is adequate we may need a more experienced keeper to keep the defence on its toes (marshal)more. If we don’t get a win soon the confidence will diminish if it hasn’t already, that’s where wellens needs to earn is money, up until this point he’s had a fairly easy ride.

Sorry but I disagree. Richie hasn’t had an easy ride at all . In fact he’s been fantastic for us. If anybody could get this club up to the next level it would be Richie. Our keeper, defence and midfield are all good and definitely League 1 standard. Unfortunately we’re failing in front of goal . If we had scored just a handful more goals this season that our play has deserved we wouldn’t be having this conversation. We all know we have to strengthen our forward line in January. If we can beat Chesterfield on Sunday and get a favourable draw in the next round that should help us bring in the players we need. Ultimately though it’s down to the clubs board. Edit, I think you have a point about leadership

Was impressed with Brown. this was the first I’d see of Agyei, but he looks a majorly tricky customer, and if we get him fully match fit and he says that way, I think he’s going to cause the opposition a lot of problems. I hope so, for the lack of creating chances and scoring remains a concern.

Is El Miz generally playing further forward than last season and is slightly less effective? That has been my impression from UK streamed games only, so I am happy to be corrected by those who attend games regularly.

EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:49 pm
Is El Miz generally playing further forward than last season and is slightly less effective? That has been my impression from UK streamed games only, so I am happy to be corrected by those who attend games regularly.

Yes. Last season he was the deepest lying midfielder, this season it's Brown.

I like Brown, but he gave the ball away a number of times and gifted Rovers with a great chance near the end. Not his best game. Happe was our best player IMO.