Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Can someone explain to me the logic behind signing a bloke who is non-league standard as backup in a L1 squad?

I really don’t understand it. He’s 25 years old so not young but also not experienced, and certainly not experienced in league football. So it’s not like the younger GKs will benefit from training with him.

He’s quite clearly nowhere near L1 standard so shouldn’t be in the starting line up when the main GK gets injured. If he’s not L1 standard by the age of 25 I seriously doubt he’ll ever be - and if he was signed as back up how would he have ever got the experience to develop anyway?

If you’re going to be forced into sticking someone who isn’t up to standard in a line up surely it makes more sense to play the younger kid (Byrne) who has more time to develop?

Overall a really baffling signing that nobody paid too much attention to at the time but now we’ve been forced to play the guy in the league it’s becoming painfully obvious what an odd decision it was to bring him in.

Errr because they thought he was lge 1 back up standard I would assume.

Nice to see your writing him off after 2 performances at that level though.

No one is up to standard currently, cut him some slack, he doesn't look amazing but no one does in a team that is losing and conceding

He was signed to sit on the bench in case anything happened to Brynn mid game. He was not signed to start games. He does have a bit of experience and is going to be a little more mature than the boys we already have.

If anything had happened to Vigs last season, we would not have gone with Sarge, instead we'd have loaned in a GK. Same situation applies now. Paying another full L1 wage for someone to never play doesn't make sense.

Tbh Sarge barely played at all because Vigs was fit almost every game. It’s quite rare we lose a first choice this early.

Let’s face it, and I can’t necessarily disagree, it’s a budget thing. You can spend money on a starting outfield player or a really good backup who might only play the odd cup game. What do you do?

He will benefit from training with us and will improve from these games too

Ron Waffle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:38 pm Errr because they thought he was lge 1 back up standard I would assume.

Nice to see your writing him off after 2 performances at that level though.

You seriously think this bloke is L1 standard?

On one hand he's cheap cover and in a non-freaky injury campaign would barely feature outside of cup games. Would Sargeant be any better? Doubtful.

Do feel a bit for Byrne though as from what I recall he never put a foot wrong in the games he played, at one point seemed to be more favoured as #2 than Sargeant?

Sol Brynn back in a few weeks according to SR post match interviews

PKM wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:53 pm Sol Brynn back in a few weeks according to SR post match interviews

Praise the good Lord!

Oh and btw Howes mad 2-3 saves tonight 1 on 1 that kept us in the game

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:57 pm Oh and btw Howes mad 2-3 saves tonight 1 on 1 that kept us in the game

Did he? I missed them.

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:02 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:57 pm Oh and btw Howes mad 2-3 saves tonight 1 on 1 that kept us in the game

Did he? I missed them.

Off the top of my head I can remember two but saves. One in the first half when Beckles f*cked yo and their striker was clean through, then in the second half after that f*cking awful pass form turns to their player 3 yards out

Come on the keeper is responsible for so much but the defence has to take some of the blame the keeper can only do so much and from set pieces we are dog sh*t and with saterday cone a new danger Blackpool are a big team we need to sort this mess out ok we have injuries but we have to preform with the players and squad we have

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:02 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:57 pm Oh and btw Howes mad 2-3 saves tonight 1 on 1 that kept us in the game

Did he? I missed them.

Not surprised, many people make their mind up about someone and from that point on are blinkered and only see what they want to see.

I don't really blame the keeper, he's a National League keeper who is capable of making the step up in standard .If he wasn't the club wouldn't have signed him . It's unfortunate he's been thrown in at the deep end but this could destroy his confidence . However I do blame some of our defenders who have gone AWOL . Hunt has been disappointing and Beckles is now getting punished for his complacency. We got away with it last season with League 2's best keeper behind them but it won't happen this season . We need Brynn back and a new CB.

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:02 am

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:02 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:57 pm Oh and btw Howes mad 2-3 saves tonight 1 on 1 that kept us in the game

Did he? I missed them.

Not surprised, many people make their mind up about someone and from that point on are blinkered and only see what they want to see.

Do you think Howes is a L1 standard keeper?

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:29 am

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:02 am

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:02 pm

Did he? I missed them.

Not surprised, many people make their mind up about someone and from that point on are blinkered and only see what they want to see.

Do you think Howes is a L1 standard keeper?

No . He has the potential to be but he's not yet . If this destroy's his confidence he might never get to be League 1 standard . Not blaming anybody because I think we've been extremely unlucky with injuries .

Agreed on all counts.

It's not fair on him being thrown in like this.

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:29 am

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:02 am

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:02 pm

Did he? I missed them.

Not surprised, many people make their mind up about someone and from that point on are blinkered and only see what they want to see.

Do you think Howes is a L1 standard keeper?

On what I've seen so far, no, but I an still open minded and not prepared to make a judgement on one bad performance. Thought he did more right than wrong yesterday.

Been said, he was brought in to sit on the bench, 3rd in line. But thrust into first choice - can't imagine how that must be feeling. Come on guys, we've got to get behind him and help build some confidence in him. Not sure even Vigs would have been able to do much about some of the 8 goals we've let in already.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:57 pm Oh and btw Howes mad 2-3 saves tonight 1 on 1 that kept us in the game

They were saves I would expect most goalies to save. To me he doesnot command his area and he was at fault with the either the 2nd or was it the 3 rd goal where a cross came in and he punched the ball out to a Ww player instead of catching it.I think half the goals scored Vigs would have saved or dealt with. Thank goodness Sol is returning in a few weeks. Why put Sargeant on transfer list and give a contract to somebody who has not played League football.

cymruO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:00 am Been said, he was brought in to sit on the bench, 3rd in line. But thrust into first choice - can't imagine how that must be feeling. Come on guys, we've got to get behind him and help build some confidence in him. Not sure even Vigs would have been able to do much about some of the 8 goals we've let in already.

Byrne is third surely and Howes is the backup keeper?

It's harsh comparing him with Vigs as they're clearly leagues apart in experience but I reckon at least 3 don't go in had we been able to keep Vigoroux

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:22 am

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:57 pm Oh and btw Howes mad 2-3 saves tonight 1 on 1 that kept us in the game

They were saves I would expect most goalies to save. To me he doesnot command his area and he was at fault with the either the 2nd or was it the 3 rd goal where a cross came in and he punched the ball out to a Ww player instead of catching it.I think half the goals scored Vigs would have saved or dealt with. Thank goodness Sol is returning in a few weeks. Why put Sargeant on transfer list and give a contract to somebody who has not played League football.

So when strikers are through with only the keeper to beat, you expect the keeper to save it, get real. Sargeant is now playing football in the second division in Ireland, in my opinion at a lower level than where we got Howes from.

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:31 am

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:22 am

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:57 pm Oh and btw Howes mad 2-3 saves tonight 1 on 1 that kept us in the game

They were saves I would expect most goalies to save. To me he doesnot command his area and he was at fault with the either the 2nd or was it the 3 rd goal where a cross came in and he punched the ball out to a Ww player instead of catching it.I think half the goals scored Vigs would have saved or dealt with. Thank goodness Sol is returning in a few weeks. Why put Sargeant on transfer list and give a contract to somebody who has not played League football.

So when strikers are through with only the keeper to beat, you expect the keeper to save it, get real. Sargeant is now playing football in the second division in Ireland, in my opinion at a lower level than where we got Howes from.

RW made comment that Sarge left as he was at a stage of his career where he needed to play games.

The vitriol being dished out towards this young player really disappoints me. He’s been thrown in the deep end and been ok. Sure, not great but ok.

He’s an inexperienced keeper who is playing in a team under the pump because of injuries. Let’s get behind him ffs.

Looking back to Saturday and comparing Howes with his opposite number in the Pompey goal.
Will Norris was signed from Burnley and has played in the Premier League for them and Wolves.
Howes has come from the National League but it will take time before he’s L1 standard, although he made some good 1 v 1 saves last night and was let down by some of the defenders in front of him .