Independent Leyton Orient Forum

When T&T took over the club, they announced a 6 year plan to return the club to League 1. That has just been achieved, but now what?

I havent heard any more plans to say get back to the Championship etc. So does this mean, they are happy for us to just linger in league 1 ?

Im a little disappointed to be honest. I want this club back in the second tier, which is where it was, when i first supported the club, but im not sure T&T do.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:42 am When T&T took over the club, they announced a 6 year plan to return the club to League 1. That has just been achieved, but now what?

I havent heard any more plans to say get back to the Championship etc. So does this mean, they are happy for us to just linger in league 1 ?

Im a little disappointed to be honest. I want this club back in the second tier, which is where it was, when i first supported the club, but im not sure T&T do.

Me too, for exactly the same reason.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:42 am When T&T took over the club, they announced a 6 year plan to return the club to League 1. That has just been achieved, but now what?

I havent heard any more plans to say get back to the Championship etc. So does this mean, they are happy for us to just linger in league 1 ?

Im a little disappointed to be honest. I want this club back in the second tier, which is where it was, when i first supported the club, but im not sure T&T do.

Me too, the lack of ambition of the current regime is criminal. I expect nothing less than Championship ready signings over the course of the summer. It really is time we got a manager in place with a proven record of promotion into the 2nd tier.

This club is stagnating

I would hazard a guess that a six year plan applies for a period of around six years. I would then speculate that the likelihood is that owners who have delivered on a plan more or less on schedule will have had a period of considering what the future holds, and that there’ll be a period of consolidation and of sustainable, realistic, development with an aim to being in a position where the club is more likely to exit league one upwards than downwards

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:42 am When T&T took over the club, they announced a 6 year plan to return the club to League 1. That has just been achieved, but now what?

I havent heard any more plans to say get back to the Championship etc. So does this mean, they are happy for us to just linger in league 1 ?

Im a little disappointed to be honest. I want this club back in the second tier, which is where it was, when i first supported the club, but im not sure T&T do.

Not like you to be negative.

Where did they announce a '6 year plan'? Link?

AI came up with this; suspect the vision will be along the similar further up the 92 each season.

Year 1: Consolidation in Mid-Table of League One

Build on the current squad's success by adding affordable experienced players.
Develop a playing style that maximizes our strengths.
Aim to consolidate our position in mid-table of League One and avoid relegation.
Proposed Position: 12th to 15th in League One

Year 2: Mid-Table Finish in League One

Further strengthen the squad with talented players, including some from the youth academy.
Continue to develop a clear team identity and playing style that is effective and attractive to fans.
Aim for a mid-table finish in League One.
Proposed Position: 10th to 13th in League One

Year 3: Challenge for Top Half of League One
Develop the squad, blending experienced and talented youth players.
Focus on improving team cohesion and developing a strong team culture.
Target a top-half finish in League One.
Proposed Position: 6th to 10th in League One

Year 4: Push for Promotion Playoff Spot in League One
Further strengthen the squad with quality players who can help us compete at a higher level.
Develop partnerships with local businesses and the community to increase revenue.
Target a promotion playoff spot in League One.
Proposed Position: 3rd to 6th in League One

Year 5: Challenge for Promotion to Championship
Invest in the squad with quality players who can help us compete in the Championship.
Develop a style of play that is effective and attractive to fans.
Target promotion to the Championship by competing for a playoff spot or automatic promotion.
Proposed Position: 3rd to 6th in League One or Automatic Promotion

Year 6: Establish in the Championship
Aim to maintain our position in the Championship and avoid relegation.
Invest in the club's infrastructure to improve training facilities and stadium amenities.
Develop young players and maintain a focus on financial stability.
Proposed Position: 16th to 20th in the Championship

Will be consolidation for a few seasons then push for the play offs. At this moment we can not compete with the likes of Pompey Derby Sheff wed. I suspect the owners are looking for additional investment

There’s no reason why we can’t get into the championship,Wycombe and Burton played in there I do believe, plus Bournemouth are playing in the premiership with a ground that only holds 10,000. However there lies the problem. Finding, building and funding a new stadium. Brentford did so why can’t we?,but that probably is for a different discussion

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:42 am When T&T took over the club, they announced a 6 year plan to return the club to League 1. That has just been achieved, but now what?

I havent heard any more plans to say get back to the Championship etc. So does this mean, they are happy for us to just linger in league 1 ?

Im a little disappointed to be honest. I want this club back in the second tier, which is where it was, when i first supported the club, but im not sure T&T do.

Not being critical of the current regime but yes I was sold a pup in the 70’s. The level of mediocrity since has been truly astounding. In the blood though and wouldn’t have it any other way.

I’d be very interested in their new plan and I’m sure they will be formulating one over the next few weeks.

The difficulty will be that they can’t exactly say they are happy to stay in league one forever, but the reality is that the investment needed to get to the championship is vastly more than going from league two to league one and they are already making huge losses every year. Because of this I suspect the ambition will be championship but to do that, they will want to stabilise in league one and then sell to investors who want to put more money in. If we can spent 2 seasons in league one I see T&T walking

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:13 am There’s no reason why we can’t get into the championship,Wycombe and Burton played in there I do believe, plus Bournemouth are playing in the premiership with a ground that only holds 10,000. However there lies the problem. Finding, building and funding a new stadium. Brentford did so why can’t we?,but that probably is for a different discussion

Yeovil got to Championship, as did Scunthorpe - both are now struggling in 6th tier of non league football.

Burton & Wycombe got to Championship, but did not last there long.

Bournemouth (twice) and Brentford have both gone one better and got to the Premiership

The Championship is certainly achievable for Orient, but there are clear financial risks around overspending and ending up much worse off. Organic growth, rather than rapid growth is more likely to lead to sustained progress.

There will be some big clubs in League one nest season including two or more of Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and Bolton Wanderers
Portsmouth
Charlton Athletic

Realistically, staying in League 1 and consolidating the squad is probably the aim for next season

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:42 am When T&T took over the club, they announced a 6 year plan to return the club to League 1. That has just been achieved, but now what?

I havent heard any more plans to say get back to the Championship etc. So does this mean, they are happy for us to just linger in league 1 ?

Im a little disappointed to be honest. I want this club back in the second tier, which is where it was, when i first supported the club, but im not sure T&T do.

Travis has said Milwall one of the best run clubs and they lose 10m per season. He has also said that he and Teague would have to sell as they dont have the money to run a sustained Championship club.

So, will you put the money in? Not sure if you noticed but money is tight at the moment.

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:22 am
Yeovil got to Championship, as did Scunthorpe - both are now struggling in 6th tier of non league football.

To take a leaf out of your book of pedantry, they've only just been relegated from the 5th tier so they're not "struggling in the 6th" as it hasn't started yet. They might thrive in Conference North/South.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:32 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:22 am
Yeovil got to Championship, as did Scunthorpe - both are now struggling in 6th tier of non league football.

To take a leaf out of your book of pedantry, they've only just been relegated from the 5th tier so they're not "struggling in the 6th" as it hasn't started yet. They might thrive in Conference North/South.

Both clubs are struggliong
Both clubs will be in 6th tier after relegation

So, yes, both clubs are struggling in 6th tier

Your mistake is in assuming I was referring to struggling on the pitch results wise.

What is it they say? Don't Assume, it makes an
Ass of
U and
Me

If you want me to be pedantic:
Neither club will thrive in Conference North or South as that has not existed since the end of the 2014-15 season when it became the National League North or South.

Plymouth have a ground with 17,900 capacity and have averaged over 15,500 this season.
Here, in the following BBC article they talk about the problems Plymouth will face in the Championship.
For the O’s to be a Championship side, other than say a brief season or two stay, there would have to be massive changes. We would need a new ground, which looks next to impossible in the Leyton area, even if we could afford it, and we would need new investors with deep pockets. Without these changes then the best we can aspire to is be a decent League One club, and that in itself is no bad thing.From where we were 6 years ago it’s absolutely brilliant. We’ve got a great structure at the club, directors who care, a superb manager and a decent set of players. Brisbane Road is a great place to come to. Let’s enjoy League One.

BBC article:

How can a club like Plymouth Argyle - who had a wage bill of about £6m last season - hope to compete in the Championship when the average wage bill is £32m and clubs relegated from the Premier League can spend multiples of that?

"There's no reason why clubs who have come up from League One can't compete," Kieran Maguire, a football finance expert from the University of Liverpool, tells BBC Radio Devon.

"We've seen the likes of Luton, Coventry, Millwall, all of whom are clubs that I would say have a broadly similar fanbase, if not slightly smaller in some circumstances, to that of Plymouth, and those clubs have been competing for play-off places this season.

PKM wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:42 am Plymouth have a ground with 17,900 capacity and have averaged over 15,500 this season.
Here, in the following BBC article they talk about the problems Plymouth will face in the Championship.
For the O’s to be a Championship side, other than say a brief season or two stay, there would have to be massive changes. We would need a new ground, which looks next to impossible in the Leyton area, even if we could afford it, and we would need new investors with deep pockets. Without these changes then the best we can aspire to is be a decent League One club, and that in itself is no bad thing.From where we were 6 years ago it’s absolutely brilliant. We’ve got a great structure at the club, directors who care, a superb manager and a decent set of players. Brisbane Road is a great place to come to. Let’s enjoy League One.

BBC article:

How can a club like Plymouth Argyle - who had a wage bill of about £6m last season - hope to compete in the Championship when the average wage bill is £32m and clubs relegated from the Premier League can spend multiples of that?

"There's no reason why clubs who have come up from League One can't compete," Kieran Maguire, a football finance expert from the University of Liverpool, tells BBC Radio Devon.

"We've seen the likes of Luton, Coventry, Millwall, all of whom are clubs that I would say have a broadly similar fanbase, if not slightly smaller in some circumstances, to that of Plymouth, and those clubs have been competing for play-off places this season.

Luton with a ground capacity of 10,000 ie only 1000 more than Orient seem to manage to have survived in the Championship and are in Promotion play offs

Bournemouth are doing ok in Premiership with a ground that holds only 11,000


Conversely, Cardiff with 3rd biggest ground in Championship have only just avoided relegation to League 1.

Size is not everything - its how you use what you have got

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:22 am

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:13 am There’s no reason why we can’t get into the championship,Wycombe and Burton played in there I do believe, plus Bournemouth are playing in the premiership with a ground that only holds 10,000. However there lies the problem. Finding, building and funding a new stadium. Brentford did so why can’t we?,but that probably is for a different discussion

Yeovil got to Championship, as did Scunthorpe - both are now struggling in 6th tier of non league football.

Burton & Wycombe got to Championship, but did not last there long.

Bournemouth (twice) and Brentford have both gone one better and got to the Premiership

The Championship is certainly achievable for Orient, but there are clear financial risks around overspending and ending up much worse off. Organic growth, rather than rapid growth is more likely to lead to sustained progress.

There will be some big clubs in League one nest season including two or more of Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and Bolton Wanderers
Portsmouth
Charlton Athletic

Realistically, staying in League 1 and consolidating the squad is probably the aim for next season

Not disagreeing with you 666,but I think your playing a dangerous game by just treading water in league one by setting your sites on a mid table position,you could end up by going back where you just come from(FGR). Surely you must aim high as you can. Yes there are financial implications in the championship but as the post says at the beginning”6 year plan” What then.? If the board put that in place then,surely they have a plan for what happens if and when they’ve achieved there goal.? Yes consolidating would be good but as I said that may be harder than it sounds

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:42 am I havent heard any more plans to say get back to the Championship etc.

So does this mean, they are happy for us to just linger in league 1 ?

Im a little disappointed to be honest.

Just because you haven't heard about a new plan, it doesn't mean there isn't one.

Regardless of this, you hypothesise for no apparent reason that our owners might want to stay in League 1. Bizarre.

And then, based on your completely evidence-free hypothesis, you say you're a little disappointed.

Some brilliant mental gymnastics, allowing you to be as needlessly negative as ever.

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:38 am

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:32 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:22 am
Yeovil got to Championship, as did Scunthorpe - both are now struggling in 6th tier of non league football.

To take a leaf out of your book of pedantry, they've only just been relegated from the 5th tier so they're not "struggling in the 6th" as it hasn't started yet. They might thrive in Conference North/South.

Both clubs are struggliong
Both clubs will be in 6th tier after relegation

So, yes, both clubs are struggling in 6th tier

Your mistake is in assuming I was referring to struggling on the pitch results wise.

What is it they say? Don't Assume, it makes an
Ass of
U and
Me

If you want me to be pedantic:
Neither club will thrive in Conference North or South as that has not existed since the end of the 2014-15 season when it became the National League North or South.

Why not just admit that it was poorly worded by yourself.It is struggling btw not struggliong.

Did the original 6 year plan factor in the death of a good manager and a pandemic?
They achieved their goal despite totally unpredictable circumstances.

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:38 am Yeovil got to Championship, as did Scunthorpe - both are now struggling in 6th tier of non league football.

If pedantry is the name of the game: are they not in the 2nd tier of non-league football?

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:57 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:38 am Yeovil got to Championship, as did Scunthorpe - both are now struggling in 6th tier of non league football.

If pedantry is the name of the game: are they not in the 2nd tier of non-league football?

You win

T&T are experienced businessmen. They’ll approach this sensibly, logically and realistically.

My hunch is that high on their current agenda is attracting some new investors. They’ve achieved their primary goal, any next steps will probably come with an increased price tag.

Lifelongfan wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:53 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:38 am

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:32 am

To take a leaf out of your book of pedantry, they've only just been relegated from the 5th tier so they're not "struggling in the 6th" as it hasn't started yet. They might thrive in Conference North/South.

Both clubs are struggliong
Both clubs will be in 6th tier after relegation

So, yes, both clubs are struggling in 6th tier

Your mistake is in assuming I was referring to struggling on the pitch results wise.

What is it they say? Don't Assume, it makes an
Ass of
U and
Me

If you want me to be pedantic:
Neither club will thrive in Conference North or South as that has not existed since the end of the 2014-15 season when it became the National League North or South.

Why not just admit that it was poorly worded by yourself.It is struggling btw not struggliong.

I’m sure you can put an argument forward lifelong without being pedantic, we’ve all made typo’s or had predicted text intervene me more than anyone.Your better than that

I like this thread, gives us an opportunity to predict/dream about the future:-

RW stays for 2 more seasons (as per contract) - O's in the mix for for L1 play-offs by 24/25 after a solid L1 season in the coming season (Finish c. 10th)
O's brand continues to develop
Crowds average 8000 next season
T&T seek several more smaller investors - as was achieved in last couple of years - whilst keeping control
East side undercroft sorted out during the next close season - capacity up to 9300 and more flexible - allowing the away section to be variable. Average crowds close to 9000
New training ground found and up and running for mid 24/25

Hard to make any prediction beyond 2 years...