Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:57 pm It's not just about taxation. I realised recently that almost all of the Polish people I know have moved back to Poland. And not because of Brexit (although that may have played a part), but because they have a better standard of living (a functioning state, housing, earnings, disposable income) and feel like they have better prospects there. Poland is hardly a hotbed of communism/socialism/whateverism. This country just feels like it's in a death spiral at the moment.

Orient_Man_And_Boy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:51 pm If you’re talking about “a few quid” on one’s personal tax bill then, personally, no. IT was 35% when I started work, although I’m not saying everything was naturally a bed of roses.

But it’s a tricky balance between ‘freedom to spend one’s money as one wishes’ vs ‘sorry tax is higher to support the nation as a whole’. An over simplification I’m sure but is that Conservatism vs Socialism in its rawest state?

The former may be classed as have-it-all-fat-cat selfishness (?) and the latter is I-am-not-as-wealthy-as-you-so-tax-more-so-we-can-spread-the-wealth.

One thing for certain, no matter the track record of other lot, no matter how charismatic the leader etc etc, no party will run on a manifesto of (say) 25 or 30 % tax because no b*gger would vote for them.

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:57 pm It's not just about taxation. I realised recently that almost all of the Polish people I know have moved back to Poland. And not because of Brexit (although that may have played a part), but because they have a better standard of living (a functioning state, housing, earnings, disposable income) and feel like they have better prospects there. Poland is hardly a hotbed of communism/socialism/whateverism. This country just feels like it's in a death spiral at the moment.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:45 pm Average real earnings won't reach 2008 levels in this country until towards the end of the decade. That's an astonishing level of economic failure, almost entirely on the Tories watch. That the Tories are polling at the highs 20s is kinda incredible, they have failed on basically every single measure you could imagine. We're dying younger, earning less, retiring older, more divided, more isolated, exporting less, getting less investment, waiting longer to see a doctor or dentist, paying more for worse public services. Sometimes I struggle to wrap my head around how bad at governing they've been.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:12 pm Mista. I hear you but I am just saying this mass transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich is a global phenomenon.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:37 pm Our productivity levels are miserably low...

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:07 pm

Orient_Man_And_Boy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:51 pm If you’re talking about “a few quid” on one’s personal tax bill then, personally, no. IT was 35% when I started work, although I’m not saying everything was naturally a bed of roses.

But it’s a tricky balance between ‘freedom to spend one’s money as one wishes’ vs ‘sorry tax is higher to support the nation as a whole’. An over simplification I’m sure but is that Conservatism vs Socialism in its rawest state?

The former may be classed as have-it-all-fat-cat selfishness (?) and the latter is I-am-not-as-wealthy-as-you-so-tax-more-so-we-can-spread-the-wealth.

One thing for certain, no matter the track record of other lot, no matter how charismatic the leader etc etc, no party will run on a manifesto of (say) 25 or 30 % tax because no b*gger would vote for them.

You are assuming that the tax will be raised from earnings.

It doesn't have to be it can come from

1)corporates paying their fair share (higher rates of CT and a four fold expansion of anti avoidance/evasion teams) in return for the govt running a health, education and legal system that enables them to extract profit.

2) Inheritance Tax being made compulsory

3) Taxation of unearned income (eg. dividends/capital gains) being taxed at higher rates

4) Transaction charges on the finance sector

5) Windfall tax on excessive profit grabbing

6) Wealth taxes on assets owned.

7) Taxes on polluting industries, and so on.

Dont forget we already have the highest tax burden in the last 70 years and everything is still sh*t thanks to Tories like Johnson and the mad one who was ejected after a week or two.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:07 pm

Orient_Man_And_Boy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:51 pm If you’re talking about “a few quid” on one’s personal tax bill then, personally, no. IT was 35% when I started work, although I’m not saying everything was naturally a bed of roses.

But it’s a tricky balance between ‘freedom to spend one’s money as one wishes’ vs ‘sorry tax is higher to support the nation as a whole’. An over simplification I’m sure but is that Conservatism vs Socialism in its rawest state?

The former may be classed as have-it-all-fat-cat selfishness (?) and the latter is I-am-not-as-wealthy-as-you-so-tax-more-so-we-can-spread-the-wealth.

One thing for certain, no matter the track record of other lot, no matter how charismatic the leader etc etc, no party will run on a manifesto of (say) 25 or 30 % tax because no b*gger would vote for them.

You are assuming that the tax will be raised from earnings.

It doesn't have to be it can come from

1)corporates paying their fair share (higher rates of CT and a four fold expansion of anti avoidance/evasion teams) in return for the govt running a health, education and legal system that enables them to extract profit.

2) Inheritance Tax being made compulsory

3) Taxation of unearned income (eg. dividends/capital gains) being taxed at higher rates

4) Transaction charges on the finance sector

5) Windfall tax on excessive profit grabbing

6) Wealth taxes on assets owned.

7) Taxes on polluting industries, and so on.

Dont forget we already have the highest tax burden in the last 70 years and everything is still sh*t thanks to Tories like Johnson and the mad one who was ejected after a week or two.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:07 pm

Orient_Man_And_Boy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:51 pm If you’re talking about “a few quid” on one’s personal tax bill then, personally, no. IT was 35% when I started work, although I’m not saying everything was naturally a bed of roses.

But it’s a tricky balance between ‘freedom to spend one’s money as one wishes’ vs ‘sorry tax is higher to support the nation as a whole’. An over simplification I’m sure but is that Conservatism vs Socialism in its rawest state?

The former may be classed as have-it-all-fat-cat selfishness (?) and the latter is I-am-not-as-wealthy-as-you-so-tax-more-so-we-can-spread-the-wealth.

One thing for certain, no matter the track record of other lot, no matter how charismatic the leader etc etc, no party will run on a manifesto of (say) 25 or 30 % tax because no b*gger would vote for them.

You are assuming that the tax will be raised from earnings.

It doesn't have to be it can come from

1)corporates paying their fair share (higher rates of CT and a four fold expansion of anti avoidance/evasion teams) in return for the govt running a health, education and legal system that enables them to extract profit.

2) Inheritance Tax being made compulsory

3) Taxation of unearned income (eg. dividends/capital gains) being taxed at higher rates

4) Transaction charges on the finance sector

5) Windfall tax on excessive profit grabbing

6) Wealth taxes on assets owned.

7) Taxes on polluting industries, and so on.

Dont forget we already have the highest tax burden in the last 70 years and everything is still sh*t thanks to Tories like Johnson and the mad one who was ejected after a week or two.

Friend or faux wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:55 am Would be a good idea if a stupid postings tax was introduced.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:45 pm Average real earnings won't reach 2008 levels in this country until towards the end of the decade. That's an astonishing level of economic failure, almost entirely on the Tories watch. That the Tories are polling at the highs 20s is kinda incredible, they have failed on basically every single measure you could imagine. We're dying younger, earning less, retiring older, more divided, more isolated, exporting less, getting less investment, waiting longer to see a doctor or dentist, paying more for worse public services. Sometimes I struggle to wrap my head around how bad at governing they've been.

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:41 pm We've steered our kids towards qualifications/careers that do not tie them down to the UK or London in particular. We're almost reconciled with the fact that both may have to move abroad to pursue a quality of life which is likely to be unobtainable for them if they remain. And I know plenty of others in the Champagne Socialist Metropolitan Elite WhatsApp group who are doing the same. As other economies overtake us we could start to experience our own brain drain.