Independent Leyton Orient Forum

We are now almost 2 and a half weeks away from the first game of the season and thought it would be interesting to track/see what people thing about the squad strength year on year. I've based this on the end of last season. There's definitely a case to be made that we brought in JMD and Turley with an eye on this season though. Also not including the kids.

Goalkeepers

Out - Grainger
In- No one

Key Questions - Will Brills decision making and age/weight transfer well to league football? Will Sarge now step up?
Verdict - Probably about even. I think we could do with a better keeper but i know im in the minority and i accept its not really a priority

Defenders

Out - No one
In - No one

Key Questions - Who is going to be the primary RB, Ling, Judd or Turley and will we be playing 5 or 4 at the back? How will Widdowson do in a league higher?
Verdict - Clearly our strongest position. A lot of depth, especially with the two kids who will probably step up every so often this year. Neutral year on year.

Central Midfield

Out - Lee, Lawless
In - Wright

Key Questions - Have we got someone who can break up play? IMO no. Do we have someone who can create a chance with a bit of magic at this level? Maybe.
Verdict - Was clearly our weakest position last season and whilst I think Wright is an upgrade on Lee, I just cannot believe Ling and co aren't trying to sort someone else before the season starts. It's the obvious hole at the moment. At the very least we need one more player for depth. An argument could be said for Gorman who might come to the fore this season.

Wingers/Number 10s

Out - No one (assume McAnuff wont be playing much)
In - No one

Key Questions - Will McAnuff play? Is Dayton going to have an impact after 2 bad injuries and no pre season? Is Brophy reliable enough?
Verdict - I still want another winger. We haven't got enough but if we do play JMD in the whole and wing backs maybe we dont need any more wingers. I think we lack depth and theres too many unknowns.

Strikers

Out - Bonne, Simpson, Koroma
In - Angol, Wilkinson

Key Questions - With what we have, are there enough goals there?
Verdict - We are obviously weaker after our we lost about 35 goals. With Alabi staying it doesn't feel like we are going to get someone else in. I think the new signings are decent but theres absolutely no depth.

Overall Verdict - IMO we are weaker in central midfield and up front. My order of priority is probably 1 - proven striker at this level, central midfielder who can win the ball, pacey winger. 2 and half weeks is obviously long enough to bring more in but as it stands today I dont see where our goals are coming from. I think our defence is good enough to keep us in games but can foresee a lot of 0-0 1-1 and 1-0 losses. If i had to predict our finish i'll say around 18th.

I think we are absolutely stronger in central midfield. Last season was Clay, Lee, Gorman and Lawless. This season it will be Clay, Wright, Gorman and McAnuff- that's definitely an upgrade. I also think Clay amd Gorman will be better players compared to the same time last year.

Up front could go either way. There's no reason why Angol and Wilkinson couldn't score the same number Bonne and Koroma did. I'd actually be pretty confident they could get 25 without penalties which in a higher league would be more than acceptable.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:29 am I think we are absolutely stronger in central midfield. Last season was Clay, Lee, Gorman and Lawless. This season it will be Clay, Wright, Gorman and McAnuff- that's definitely an upgrade. I also think Clay amd Gorman will be better players compared to the same time last year.

Up front could go either way. There's no reason why Angol and Wilkinson couldn't score the same number Bonne and Koroma did. I'd actually be pretty confident they could get 25 without penalties which in a higher league would be more than acceptable.

Could be right Red. I do think you're right in terms of when looking at the team, people (like me in the opening post) ignore the progress players make. Clay is 27 and could well be moving into his prime now. Gorman cant be much worse either.

Regarding McAnuff, do you think he'll play in CM a lot? Its a taxing position, especially when the pace is higher in league two and he is a year older. Cant see it myself.

Think I’ll wait a few games before I give my expert advice on this matter

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:38 am

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:29 am I think we are absolutely stronger in central midfield. Last season was Clay, Lee, Gorman and Lawless. This season it will be Clay, Wright, Gorman and McAnuff- that's definitely an upgrade. I also think Clay amd Gorman will be better players compared to the same time last year.

Up front could go either way. There's no reason why Angol and Wilkinson couldn't score the same number Bonne and Koroma did. I'd actually be pretty confident they could get 25 without penalties which in a higher league would be more than acceptable.

Could be right Red. I do think you're right in terms of when looking at the team, people (like me in the opening post) ignore the progress players make. Clay is 27 and could well be moving into his prime now. Gorman cant be much worse either.

Regarding McAnuff, do you think he'll play in CM a lot? Its a taxing position, especially when the pace is higher in league two and he is a year older. Cant see it myself.

Yes I think McAnuff will be used as a cm. Mostly because I think we will play 5 3 2 which would make it the only position he could play.

As with last season, our weakness is a ball winner in the middle. I don't see any glaring weaknesses elsewhere. Room for improvement, of course.

I actually think JMD behind Wilkinson and Angol is going to scare a lot of teams at this level.

If we compare the squad 12 months ago with the squad today it's not really a fair comparison. We're evaluating last year's squad knowing how they performed last season and the final league position, but we're not able to base this year's squad on anything other than who is in it. While it appears weaker on paper this season I guess we'll have a better idea a month or two into the season. Certainly could do with a couple more players though.

JMD could be the star this year, for sure. Really impressed with what i've seen of him. We need him to have a big year.

Regarding McAnuff, do you think he'll play in CM a lot? Its a taxing position, especially when the pace is higher in league two and he is a year older. Cant see it myself.
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Not sure that the pace is higher. In fact I think the pace will suit him better - besides he has more skill than most players will be up against in that role.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:09 am Key Questions - Who is going to be the primary RB, Ling, Judd or Turley and will we be playing 5 or 4 at the back? How will Widdowson do in a league higher?

You do know Widdowson has spent more of his career playing at L2 level than National League level?

Can’t see Jobi playing a full season, but maybe enough games as makes no difference. When he is not playing our lack of depth in midfield comes through. lot of pressure on Clay, Wright and Gorman.

But hey ho. I was saying the same last season, especially about our lack of strength and depth so what do I know. Can see us playing 3-5-2 quite a lot given our strengths.

jamespevans wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:22 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:09 am Key Questions - Who is going to be the primary RB, Ling, Judd or Turley and will we be playing 5 or 4 at the back? How will Widdowson do in a league higher?

You do know Widdowson has spent more of his career playing at L2 level than National League level?

Was he any good in league two?

A fairer comparison would be the squad at the start of last season compared to this. Remember Koroma wasn't even seen as a centre forward at the start of the season

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:33 pm A fairer comparison would be the squad at the start of last season compared to this. Remember Koroma wasn't even seen as a centre forward at the start of the season

It would, but then we'd still be biased by performance last season with nothing performance wise to measure this season's squad on.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:29 pm Can’t see Jobi playing a full season, but maybe enough games as makes no difference. When he is not playing our lack of depth in midfield comes through. lot of pressure on Clay, Wright and Gorman.

But hey ho. I was saying the same last season, especially about our lack of strength and depth so what do I know. Can see us playing 3-5-2 quite a lot given our strengths.

3 pretty servicable central midfielders at this level, and one who was before a bad injury. Doesn't seem like we're too badly stocked. It's probably got more depth in that position than the last time we were in league two.

I'd swap either of the previous League Two midfields for ours currently. On paper, those players are better and also have a wider range of attributes between them, also were a decent age, not too old or young.

The problem was Beelzebub, who made everyone play rubbish.

2015/2016: Nigel Atangana, Sammy Moore, Lloyd James, Jack Payne
2016/2017: Nigel Atangana, Sammy Moore, Liam Kelly, Robbie Weir

I think Kelly is better than Wright, and Atangana better than Clay.

I am rather laid back about this now. In terms of numbers we have almost a full complement of players, and if youth like Kyprianou are included, then everything is done. This isn't a squad that will be troubling the top spots, but in terms of being safe I don't see why should not win enough games with it.

The obvious missing ingredient is the lack of enforcer in the midfield, but it's clear that Ling/Embleton don't want that way of playing. So there is little point if having one in the squad now. If Plan A does not work out, it's going to be apparent pretty soon.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:07 pm I'd swap either of the previous League Two midfields for ours currently. On paper, those players are better and also have a wider range of attributes between them, also were a decent age, not too old or young.

The problem was Beelzebub, who made everyone play rubbish.

2015/2016: Nigel Atangana, Sammy Moore, Lloyd James, Jack Payne
2016/2017: Nigel Atangana, Sammy Moore, Liam Kelly, Robbie Weir

I think Kelly is better than Wright, and Atangana better than Clay.

I am rather laid back about this now. In terms of numbers we have almost a full complement of players, and if youth like Kyprianou are included, then everything is done. This isn't a squad that will be troubling the top spots, but in terms of being safe I don't see why should not win enough games with it.

The obvious missing ingredient is the lack of enforcer in the midfield, but it's clear that Ling/Embleton don't want that way of playing. So there is little point if having one in the squad now. If Plan A does not work out, it's going to be apparent pretty soon.

Agreed on Liam Kelly but not sure I'd have any of the others, bar maybe Lloyd James ahead of our starting pair.

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:00 pm Think I’ll wait a few games before I give my expert advice on this matter

Or, as usual, you'll sit on the fence!!!

You got too much time on your hands, worrying about things you can't affect. Try working.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:48 pm

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:00 pm Think I’ll wait a few games before I give my expert advice on this matter

Or, as usual, you'll sit on the fence!!!

It may come as a surprise to you but in order for a proper assessment the current players have to kick a thing called a football first

You can semise all you want like I said I’ll wait till we’re a few games in if you have a problem with that Mr Grumpy I suggest you take it up with your health professional on your next visit

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:43 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:48 pm

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:00 pm Think I’ll wait a few games before I give my expert advice on this matter

Or, as usual, you'll sit on the fence!!!

It may come as a surprise to you but in order for a proper assessment the current players have to kick a thing called a football first

You can semise all you want like I said I’ll wait till we’re a few games in if you have a problem with that Mr Grumpy I suggest you take it up with your health professional on your next visit

I'll ignore the comments about ComeOnYouOs, but personally I don't feel there's anything wrong with not wanting to rush to a conclusion with things like this.

For example, people got on Alabi's back from when he signed and others said that they'd like to see how he does first before reaching a conclusion. But for some reason those who got on his back at the start seemed to think they were more right than those that wanted to wait and see what happened first before drawing a conclusion and that this made them superior in some way. It's almost like people think they are forced to have an opinion on everything or that others should do.

LittleMate wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:40 pm You got too much time on your hands, worrying about things you can't affect. Try working.

What a great message board that would be, if we all worked instead of posting about Orient.

Who'd have thought a post about Orient being on an Orient forum though!

I quit my job 5 years ago to concentrate on boarding. I wish someone had given me that advice back then.

It will be painful watching us trying to score.

Strong in defence as long as we don't let Happe go. Retaining Turley crucial to keep that physical edge (yes, cheating) that comes in very handy at times.

Weaker in CM, still no enforcer and no replacement for Lawless. Asking a lot of McAnuff to cover midfield again with one eye on his new coaching role. Wright a good upgrade on Lee but it's lack of numbers again that concerns me.

Weaker up front. Lost 35+ proven goals and although the new players might pick up the mantle there's no competition or cover for them at all. Alabi as one of the 4 main options doesn't bode well.

Lack of cover out wide given Dayton won't be at the races for months and might struggle in a similar way to Gorman with lack of pre-season.

To compete at a higher level where larger squads come into play we really need two quality signings. One in CM and one striker (with Angol covering the wide spot if needed as a read somewhere he's played there in the past?)