Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:06 pm**

For much of my life I have liked having a Royal family. However, as I have become a grumpy old git my perspective has changed. The Queen keeps being referred to as an inspiration but what has she inspired in her own family-3 divorces with a son who has paid 12million(£ or $?) to avoid going to court. Our new King is head of the church but has committed adultery, allegedly. Would Diana now be queen if it wasn?t for that?

I have read that the Royal family is being reduced in size so perhaps this is a first step to becoming a Republic.

Perhaps I am just disgruntled at not being part of the ruling establishment. I do get that having celebrities such as the Royals brings pleasure to many people, would a president have the same attraction. I also recognise that the Royals probably bring in tourists but would that change. We could convert Buckingham palace to a very expensive hotel. Guess that would have attractions

What do you guys think?

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:26 pm**

Agree your a grumpy old git

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:39 pm**

I have been a republican for 60 years since I was a young lad.
We just don't need a symbol of elitism thrown in our faces, especially when the gap between the haves and the have nots is now a chasm.
Eventually this will happen, but not that anyone who's alive now will see. Maybe 200 years or so, but it will happen.
The enforced mourning we are seeing, particularly on the BBC, is really unedifying too, and the propaganda being forced into our heads is sickening.
Children grow up with this non stop crap being put into their heads. It's all to get a complient adult population that does what its told, to enable the elites to rule over us.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:51 pm**

Harlow wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:06 pm For much of my life I have liked having a Royal family. However, as I have become a grumpy old git my perspective has changed. The Queen keeps being referred to as an inspiration but what has she inspired in her own family-3 divorces with a son who has paid 12million(£ or $?) to avoid going to court. Our new King is head of the church but has committed adultery, allegedly. Would Diana now be queen if it wasn?t for that?

I have read that the Royal family is being reduced in size so perhaps this is a first step to becoming a Republic.

Perhaps I am just disgruntled at not being part of the ruling establishment. I do get that having celebrities such as the Royals brings pleasure to many people, would a president have the same attraction. I also recognise that the Royals probably bring in tourists but would that change. We could convert Buckingham palace to a very expensive hotel. Guess that would have attractions

What do you guys think?

Perhaps the time has not come yet, but surely getting to the end and yes, can see it being gradually scaled back a lot as years go on.
Centuries ago the Kings and Queens were the ruling powers of the land, they lead their troops out to battle and if the battle was lost, they often lost their own life. The rot set in with King John and the power of the monarchy was vastly diminished by the time Charles the Second came to the throne. The German Georges of the House of Hanover let parliament do the work of running the country and the real power of British monarchs has declined over the years so much that they are now little more than just ceremonial figureheads.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:55 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:39 pm I have been a republican for 60 years since I was a young lad.
We just don't need a symbol of elitism thrown in our faces, especially when the gap between the haves and the have nots is now a chasm.
Eventually this will happen, but not that anyone who's alive now will see. Maybe 200 years or so, but it will happen.
The enforced mourning we are seeing, particularly on the BBC, is really unedifying too, and the propaganda being forced into our heads is sickening.
Children grow up with this non stop crap being put into their heads. It's all to get a complient adult population that does what its told, to enable the elites to rule over us.

I suppose a good part of having a monarchy in the Uk as against a president is that it has so far prevented a dictator leader such as Putin, Hitler and various others you could name, from taking control of the UK.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:06 pm**

You're absolutely right Sid. You'd never see a king ordering people to be hung, drawn and quartered, or starting unjust wars.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:23 pm**

Real Al wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:06 pm You're absolutely right Sid. You'd never see a king ordering people to be hung, drawn and quartered, or starting unjust wars.

Not in modern times you would not, because today we have a constitutional monarchy.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:08 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:39 pm I have been a republican for 60 years since I was a young lad.
We just don't need a symbol of elitism thrown in our faces, especially when the gap between the haves and the have nots is now a chasm.
Eventually this will happen, but not that anyone who's alive now will see. Maybe 200 years or so, but it will happen.
The enforced mourning we are seeing, particularly on the BBC, is really unedifying too, and the propaganda being forced into our heads is sickening.
Children grow up with this non stop crap being put into their heads. It's all to get a complient adult population that does what its told, to enable the elites to rule over us.

'60 years on being a republican'..? Congratulations.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:20 pm**

I feel that regardless of whatever moral or ethical argument you come up with, no matter how convincing, is completely irrelevant because if you put this to a vote there’s no way the British public would choose to remove the Monarchy.

It would also be political suicide for any party which pushed it. No major political party would support it. There’s no chance that the Conservatives would support a republic, and could you imagine the uproar if the Labour Party adopted abolishing the monarchy as a policy? Even Corbyn didn’t go that far.

Whether you like it or not, the monarchy is here to stay.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:43 pm**

Real Al wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:06 pm You're absolutely right Sid. You'd never see a king ordering people to be hung, drawn and quartered, or starting unjust wars.

Just as well, 'cause I could think of a number you that should be in line on that wagon

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:43 pm**

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:20 pm I feel that regardless of whatever moral or ethical argument you come up with, no matter how convincing, is completely irrelevant because if you put this to a vote there’s no way the British public would choose to remove the Monarchy.

It would also be political suicide for any party which pushed it. No major political party would support it. There’s no chance that the Conservatives would support a republic, and could you imagine the uproar if the Labour Party adopted abolishing the monarchy as a policy? Even Corbyn didn’t go that far.

Whether you like it or not, the monarchy is here to stay.

Nothing lasts forever. FACT.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:45 pm**

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:55 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:39 pm I have been a republican for 60 years since I was a young lad.
We just don't need a symbol of elitism thrown in our faces, especially when the gap between the haves and the have nots is now a chasm.
Eventually this will happen, but not that anyone who's alive now will see. Maybe 200 years or so, but it will happen.
The enforced mourning we are seeing, particularly on the BBC, is really unedifying too, and the propaganda being forced into our heads is sickening.
Children grow up with this non stop crap being put into their heads. It's all to get a complient adult population that does what its told, to enable the elites to rule over us.
I suppose a good part of having a monarchy in the Uk as against a president is that it has so far prevented a dictator leader such as Putin, Hitler and various others you could name, from taking control of the UK.

you know germany had a royal family as did russia Sidney !

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:01 pm**

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:08 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:39 pm I have been a republican for 60 years since I was a young lad.
We just don't need a symbol of elitism thrown in our faces, especially when the gap between the haves and the have nots is now a chasm.
Eventually this will happen, but not that anyone who's alive now will see. Maybe 200 years or so, but it will happen.
The enforced mourning we are seeing, particularly on the BBC, is really unedifying too, and the propaganda being forced into our heads is sickening.
Children grow up with this non stop crap being put into their heads. It's all to get a complient adult population that does what its told, to enable the elites to rule over us.
'60 years on being a republican'..? Congratulations.

What a strange thing to say!

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:05 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:01 pm
Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:08 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:39 pm I have been a republican for 60 years since I was a young lad.
We just don't need a symbol of elitism thrown in our faces, especially when the gap between the haves and the have nots is now a chasm.
Eventually this will happen, but not that anyone who's alive now will see. Maybe 200 years or so, but it will happen.
The enforced mourning we are seeing, particularly on the BBC, is really unedifying too, and the propaganda being forced into our heads is sickening.
Children grow up with this non stop crap being put into their heads. It's all to get a complient adult population that does what its told, to enable the elites to rule over us.
'60 years on being a republican'..? Congratulations.
What a strange thing to say!

Personally I'd rather we kept the monarchy than have a President .

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:11 pm**

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:20 pm I feel that regardless of whatever moral or ethical argument you come up with, no matter how convincing, is completely irrelevant because if you put this to a vote there’s no way the British public would choose to remove the Monarchy.

It would also be political suicide for any party which pushed it. No major political party would support it. There’s no chance that the Conservatives would support a republic, and could you imagine the uproar if the Labour Party adopted abolishing the monarchy as a policy? Even Corbyn didn’t go that far.

Whether you like it or not, the monarchy is here to stay.

Not saying it will happen, because it almost certainly won’t. But I guarantee there are already people in certain circles and services already keeping an eye on civil unrest. The mixture of a new, unpopular monarch, and poverty levels rising, people who are angry, cold and hungry isn’t a good mix for royal families in history.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:12 pm**

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:55 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:39 pm I have been a republican for 60 years since I was a young lad.
We just don't need a symbol of elitism thrown in our faces, especially when the gap between the haves and the have nots is now a chasm.
Eventually this will happen, but not that anyone who's alive now will see. Maybe 200 years or so, but it will happen.
The enforced mourning we are seeing, particularly on the BBC, is really unedifying too, and the propaganda being forced into our heads is sickening.
Children grow up with this non stop crap being put into their heads. It's all to get a complient adult population that does what its told, to enable the elites to rule over us.
I suppose a good part of having a monarchy in the Uk as against a president is that it has so far prevented a dictator leader such as Putin, Hitler and various others you could name, from taking control of the UK.

Putin isn’t technically a dictator and Germany had checks and balances which Hitler got around pretty easily.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:27 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:01 pm
Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:08 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:39 pm I have been a republican for 60 years since I was a young lad.
We just don't need a symbol of elitism thrown in our faces, especially when the gap between the haves and the have nots is now a chasm.
Eventually this will happen, but not that anyone who's alive now will see. Maybe 200 years or so, but it will happen.
The enforced mourning we are seeing, particularly on the BBC, is really unedifying too, and the propaganda being forced into our heads is sickening.
Children grow up with this non stop crap being put into their heads. It's all to get a complient adult population that does what its told, to enable the elites to rule over us.
'60 years on being a republican'..? Congratulations.
What a strange thing to say!

...what you mean announcing that you've been '60 years' a republican ?

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:29 pm**

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:05 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:01 pm
Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:08 pm
'60 years on being a republican'..? Congratulations.
What a strange thing to say!
Personally I'd rather we kept the monarchy than have a President .

I Thought you loved a President

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:18 pm**

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:27 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:01 pm
Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:08 pm
'60 years on being a republican'..? Congratulations.
What a strange thing to say!
...what you mean announcing that you've been '60 years' a republican ?

Yes if course that. It's not something that warrants praise, even sarcastic praise as yours was. It's just a fact of life. We all have various opinions, and that's mine.
You're a weird bloke at times..... That's another personal opinion

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:40 pm**

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:12 pm Putin isn’t technically a dictator .

Heh

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:48 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:18 pm
Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:27 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:01 pm

What a strange thing to say!
...what you mean announcing that you've been '60 years' a republican ?
Yes if course that. It's not something that warrants praise, even sarcastic praise as yours was. It's just a fact of life. We all have various opinions, and that's mine.
You're a weird bloke at times..... That's another personal opinion

You can have as many personal opinions as you like about me, the 'weird bloke'....As it happens, comeon, I've been a royalist for sixty two and a half years..

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:02 pm**

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:43 pm
The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:20 pm I feel that regardless of whatever moral or ethical argument you come up with, no matter how convincing, is completely irrelevant because if you put this to a vote there’s no way the British public would choose to remove the Monarchy.

It would also be political suicide for any party which pushed it. No major political party would support it. There’s no chance that the Conservatives would support a republic, and could you imagine the uproar if the Labour Party adopted abolishing the monarchy as a policy? Even Corbyn didn’t go that far.

Whether you like it or not, the monarchy is here to stay.
Nothing lasts forever. FACT.

That is true. But I would expect that England will have a monarch for a long time to come.

I say England because I do think there is a chance that Scotland, Wales and/or Northern Ireland could break away from the UK and the monarchy.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:40 pm**

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:45 pm
Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:55 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:39 pm I have been a republican for 60 years since I was a young lad.
We just don't need a symbol of elitism thrown in our faces, especially when the gap between the haves and the have nots is now a chasm.
Eventually this will happen, but not that anyone who's alive now will see. Maybe 200 years or so, but it will happen.
The enforced mourning we are seeing, particularly on the BBC, is really unedifying too, and the propaganda being forced into our heads is sickening.
Children grow up with this non stop crap being put into their heads. It's all to get a complient adult population that does what its told, to enable the elites to rule over us.
I suppose a good part of having a monarchy in the Uk as against a president is that it has so far prevented a dictator leader such as Putin, Hitler and various others you could name, from taking control of the UK.
you know germany had a royal family as did russia Sidney !

Of course and both families had family connections with the British royal family, but what happened to Germany and Russia did not happen to the UK.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:47 pm**

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:12 pm
Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:55 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:39 pm I have been a republican for 60 years since I was a young lad.
We just don't need a symbol of elitism thrown in our faces, especially when the gap between the haves and the have nots is now a chasm.
Eventually this will happen, but not that anyone who's alive now will see. Maybe 200 years or so, but it will happen.
The enforced mourning we are seeing, particularly on the BBC, is really unedifying too, and the propaganda being forced into our heads is sickening.
Children grow up with this non stop crap being put into their heads. It's all to get a complient adult population that does what its told, to enable the elites to rule over us.
I suppose a good part of having a monarchy in the Uk as against a president is that it has so far prevented a dictator leader such as Putin, Hitler and various others you could name, from taking control of the UK.
Putin isn’t technically a dictator and Germany had checks and balances which Hitler got around pretty easily.

Wilhelm II, German Emperor known as ''Kaiser Bill'' abdicated in November 1918, he went into exile in the Netherlands so he was long gone from any sort of power by the time Hitler came into power. As to Putin not being a Dictator, well more like a case of judging people by their own actions !

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:13 pm**

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:40 pm
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:45 pm
Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:55 pm

I suppose a good part of having a monarchy in the Uk as against a president is that it has so far prevented a dictator leader such as Putin, Hitler and various others you could name, from taking control of the UK.
you know germany had a royal family as did russia Sidney !
Of course and both families had family connections with the British royal family, but what happened to Germany and Russia did not happen to the UK.

Yet !!!

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