Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:16 pm**

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 1:03 pm Regarding the 500+ reported casualties at the hospital last night...

It transpires that between 30 and 50 people were sheltering on a lawn near the courtyard. The blast and fire resulted in an unknown number of them being either injured or killed. The exact number of causalities is still to be determined, but will be a lot lower than the number put forward in the initial claims.

Aside from that, the hospital is continuing to operate and treat people as best as the medical staff are able to.

Reuters have released another photo of the site, and it is clear that this is the impact of small munitions and all-but confirms that it was a failed Hamas rocket landing and igniting a fuel fire.

Agree with your sentiment re fake news and unconfirmed reports being reported as facts but aren't you are risk at falling into that trap? Unless you are some sort of expert in bomb blasts i'm not sure how posting up stuff like this is particularly helpful. Especially as you have talked about misreporting of facts a lot on this thread.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:20 pm**

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:16 pm
Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 1:03 pm Regarding the 500+ reported casualties at the hospital last night...

It transpires that between 30 and 50 people were sheltering on a lawn near the courtyard. The blast and fire resulted in an unknown number of them being either injured or killed. The exact number of causalities is still to be determined, but will be a lot lower than the number put forward in the initial claims.

Aside from that, the hospital is continuing to operate and treat people as best as the medical staff are able to.

Reuters have released another photo of the site, and it is clear that this is the impact of small munitions and all-but confirms that it was a failed Hamas rocket landing and igniting a fuel fire.

Agree with your sentiment re fake news and unconfirmed reports being reported as facts but aren't you are risk at falling into that trap? Unless you are some sort of expert in bomb blasts i'm not sure how posting up stuff like this is particularly helpful. Especially as you have talked about misreporting of facts a lot on this thread.

Sometimes it's just better to say I'm not an expert and I will assess the situation once reliable evidence has been produced.

At the same time I'm not forgetting that in an earlier attack an Israeli missile has already struck the cancer centre at this hospital.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:22 pm**

I know, I’m certainly waiting for the experts to arrive before I raise an eyebrow about the idea that a crater that looks like it could have been caused by a particularly large turd might have had 500 unlucky people standing in that square metre

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:23 pm**

Interesting interview between Anna Botting (Sky News) and Mark Regev last night when understandably emotions were running high about what was being reported about the hospital strike, but shows how certain sections of the media are unable to remain impartial.

https://news.sky.com/video/israel-hamas ... l-12986579

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:25 pm**

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:22 pm I know, I’m certainly waiting for the experts to arrive before I raise an eyebrow about the idea that a crater that looks like it could have been caused by a particularly large turd might have had 500 unlucky people standing in that square metre

Hardly definitive. Why does there need to be a crater if it was a device that explodes in the air?

The other odd thing is that Netanyahus former advisor and now "freelance" propogandist claimed it was the work of the IDF before deleting his tweet.

We're not there yet.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:26 pm**

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:22 pm I know, I’m certainly waiting for the experts to arrive before I raise an eyebrow about the idea that a crater that looks like it could have been caused by a particularly large turd might have had 500 unlucky people standing in that square metre

Since you could probably say the same about one misfired rocket, is the main thing here that you doubt the numbers quoted? As for the crater, the thread details former incidents where IDF missiles are notable for not leaving large craters. I'm not saying it's clear evidence one way or another but just seemed a reasonably clear headed and non-emotive counter-assessment.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:30 pm**

My point is mostly that Dunners is actually addressing the initial inaccuracy with a point based on more info, somewhere closer to the truth. I’m sure there’ll be lots of back and forth before we get to the actual accurate thing, but what I’m saying really is that it’s ridiculous to act as if linking to the emerging, seemingly better evidence about what happened is as irresponsible as rushing to the report unverified stuff as fact.

I do doubt the numbers though, based on some of the stuff I’ve seen. I wouldn’t die on the hill of it though, I just wouldn’t assume that either a high number or low number is true.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:31 pm**

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:22 pm I know, I’m certainly waiting for the experts to arrive before I raise an eyebrow about the idea that a crater that looks like it could have been caused by a particularly large turd might have had 500 unlucky people standing in that square metre

What are you eating ?

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:32 pm**

Meanwhile, Corbyn’s tweet remains up, without any further comment.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:33 pm**

BBC VERIFY - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67144061

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:36 pm**

It’s a thorny issue, seemingly

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:54 pm**

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:16 pm
Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 1:03 pm Regarding the 500+ reported casualties at the hospital last night...

It transpires that between 30 and 50 people were sheltering on a lawn near the courtyard. The blast and fire resulted in an unknown number of them being either injured or killed. The exact number of causalities is still to be determined, but will be a lot lower than the number put forward in the initial claims.

Aside from that, the hospital is continuing to operate and treat people as best as the medical staff are able to.

Reuters have released another photo of the site, and it is clear that this is the impact of small munitions and all-but confirms that it was a failed Hamas rocket landing and igniting a fuel fire.

Agree with your sentiment re fake news and unconfirmed reports being reported as facts but aren't you are risk at falling into that trap? Unless you are some sort of expert in bomb blasts i'm not sure how posting up stuff like this is particularly helpful. Especially as you have talked about misreporting of facts a lot on this thread.

Fair point. But, obviously, I am now an expert on munitions along with various other topics, such as virology, Russo-Sino relations, quantum mechanics, managers of the England football team post-1986, the movies of Craig Fairbrass among others. So there is that.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:12 pm**

...and the Captain Tom debacle - I'm becoming a bit of an expert on that too. I'm obsessed with that story and how his daughter has so blatantly taken the piss. As a fellow fan of creative financing and expense account manipulation I almost admire her.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:23 pm**

There’s something of the sitcom about the Captain Tom story that stops me from being annoyed about any of it

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:34 pm**

I’m here for the appeal for patience and caution on misinformation in one post then the “here’s a thread/theory I found on Twitter, how curious” in the next.

Excellent stuff

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:47 pm**

Misinformation is stating something as fact. Saying "here's an account which I'm not stating is fact but has some interesting counterpoints to something another user has shared" is not the same thing, but then you already know that.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:11 pm**

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 11:32 am Hooo boy, mask fully off.

I'm not sure he was ever wearing much of one in the first place.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:26 pm**

Hmm- why fake it if they had nothing to do with the bombing?

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:28 pm**

The genocide focuses on the eradication of children

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:30 pm**

Why is this one particular strike being questioned, as opposed to the hundreds of other Israeli air strikes over the last few days? Is it just because it hit a hospital, a hospital that had already been hit by an Israeli missile?

We’re hardly likely to get a definitive answer because no independent experts are going to be allowed to check it out, but it seems odd that of all the air strikes, this is the one that’s being questioned. Just saying.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:31 pm**

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:47 pm Misinformation is stating something as fact. Saying "here's an account which I'm not stating is fact but has some interesting counterpoints to something another user has shared" is not the same thing, but then you already know that.

It isn’t, however I’m not sure the gap between “by far the most probable cause” and “is fact” is that big

But as I said, I’m here for the accounts posting theories from an amateur perspective and the inevitable “I’m just asking questions” retort. One that I’m not even accusing you of (nor was my original post at aimed at yourself)

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:36 pm**

I've been watching this evening's news.

To see two warmongers embracing, made me feel really sick.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:48 pm**

The first casualty when war comes is truth".

Hiram W Johnson senator for California, to the US Senate in 1917

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:56 pm**

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:31 pm
Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:47 pm Misinformation is stating something as fact. Saying "here's an account which I'm not stating is fact but has some interesting counterpoints to something another user has shared" is not the same thing, but then you already know that.
It isn’t, however I’m not sure the gap between “by far the most probable cause” and “is fact” is that big

But as I said, I’m here for the accounts posting theories from an amateur perspective and the inevitable “I’m just asking questions” retort. One that I’m not even accusing you of (nor was my original post at aimed at yourself)

Apologies if I jumped the gun there and made 5.

As it goes, I did actually have issue with "by far the most probable cause" and should have said so.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:53 am**

FrankOFile wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:41 am
BoniO wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:58 am
FrankOFile wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:43 am

That is all the Bonios of this world have got. They confuse themselves with their own bigotry.
Fame at last! I’ve got my own little stalker .

I may have mentioned this earlier but despising the State of Israel is not the same as hating Jews. I doubt you’ll take note of that because it doesn’t suit your narrative but it bears repeating all the same, you tiresome pillock.
More name calling. You inarticulate Israel / Jewish haters sure are an intelligent lot.

Good to see that you thanked me for my post. Are you starting to wake up and smell the bacon?

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