Israel

[Tuffers#2]

Didnt Israel deny killing Abu Akleh, claiming it was a palestinian gunman instead ?

[Long slender neck]

WHAT ABOUT....

[CEB]

@Admin - I don’t think you’re a fan boy. But it just seems that over the years there have been a few too many “strange” decisions and “lapses of judgement” and “should have known betters” for it to be credible that he’s just the world’s unluckiest non-anti semite.

For someone irrelevant politically, the tweet he sent has been seen by millions of people, including loads of those who bizarrely want him reinstalled as Labour leader as their ultimate fantasy, and his tweet is still up there, without qualification, being read by lots and lots of people who have decided already that Corbyn is the only politician they trust.

It just all seems very iffy to me, and as someone who voted for him as labour leader but found it increasingly difficult to support him (and for whom Taylor Parked’ essay when he was first in the running as leader became something I regretted not taking seriously at the time), I just don’t see why he’s still given the benefit of the doubt on this stuff by people who maybe should know better?

[Proposition Joe]

BBC and co, which I myself and the world rely on to be accurate- (I am not a BBC hater) were too quick to blame Israel last night, the result is "Mass protests broke out in Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and the West Bank after an explosion at al-Ahli al-Arabi hospital left hundreds dead" (reported by The Guardian).

You'd think a news team that are 'oh careful we dont label Hamas as terrorists' could be more careful in their reporting. Correcting it later isnt good enough.

Since they've made a big thing of their BBC Verify unit, they seem to be struggling with the 'verification' bit of their own reporting, be it smearing the demos that took place at the weekend and having to issue on-air corrections, or seemingly jumping the gun on events like this.

[Admin]

I'd just add that this brings us neatly back to the point PJ was making about the importance of accurate reporting and verification.

Last week a fair chunk of the UK media were printing / reporting on beheaded children without verification. This week a number of news agencies have attributed this latest event and subsequently had to row back.

I get the demand for 24 hour news and constant updates but media outlets have a responsibility in all of this to inform the great unwashed of what it knows for sure and be honest about what it can't report accurately.

[Adz]

Do they care about accuracy as long as they get the hits

[Dunners]

I think X/Twitter is a large part of the problem. It seems to just amplify the pace at which misinformation spreads and adds a misplaced sense of urgency for individuals and organisations to react to events.

[CEB]

I think X/Twitter is a large part of the problem. It seems to just amplify the pace at which misinformation spreads and adds a misplaced sense of urgency for individuals and organisations to react to events.

Agree to some extent, but the sway that Twitter/X has in this way emphasises that news outlets and prominent individuals need to be mindful of how broken it is as a useful platform

[Adz]

Defamation aside, the problem is, you can say anything without ramifications. This has been proliferated by our political leaders, who make statements without following through on them.

[Proposition Joe]

I think X/Twitter is a large part of the problem. It seems to just amplify the pace at which misinformation spreads and adds a misplaced sense of urgency for individuals and organisations to react to events.

Agree to some extent, but the sway that Twitter/X has in this way emphasises that news outlets and prominent individuals need to be mindful of how broken it is as a useful platform

Agree with that but I would guess that some news agencies are now possibly so entirely reliant on it as a news source or news generator that to dump it now it's turned to absolute sh*t would cause them a fair few problems. Or, gasp, dead air or a lack of online content.

[Dunners]

It also provides a public platform for imbeciles like this.

[CEB]

Jesus Christ

[Proposition Joe]

Hooo boy, mask fully off.

[Admin]

@Admin - I don’t think you’re a fan boy. But it just seems that over the years there have been a few too many “strange” decisions and “lapses of judgement” and “should have known betters” for it to be credible that he’s just the world’s unluckiest non-anti semite.

For someone irrelevant politically, the tweet he sent has been seen by millions of people, including loads of those who bizarrely want him reinstalled as Labour leader as their ultimate fantasy, and his tweet is still up there, without qualification, being read by lots and lots of people who have decided already that Corbyn is the only politician they trust.

It just all seems very iffy to me, and as someone who voted for him as labour leader but found it increasingly difficult to support him (and for whom Taylor Parked’ essay when he was first in the running as leader became something I regretted not taking seriously at the time), I just don’t see why he’s still given the benefit of the doubt on this stuff by people who maybe should know better?

Yep. My term "should know better" was meant in a disdainful way - perhaps "f*cking idiot" in this particular case would have worked better.

I suspect he gets away with it because the vast majority of our politicians are hideously f*cking awful. But that's a debate for another thread.

[CEB]

What I’m getting at though is that “idiot” assumes good faith, when the pattern suggests that the things about which he has a tendency to be an “idiot” start to suggest that it’s not so much idiocy as about being skewed by having iffy views

[CEB]

Though thinking about it, I think this is maybe a different in how we use the words, as I half remember having a discussion where you referred to a boarder as a f***ing idiot while I was arguing that that credited him with not being malicious, so maybe we’re saying the same thing in different ways?

[Admin]

Though thinking about it, I think this is maybe a different in how we use the words, as I half remember having a discussion where you referred to a boarder as a f***ing idiot while I was arguing that that credited him with not being malicious, so maybe we’re saying the same thing in different ways?

Yeah I think we are.

To clarify, his stupidity displayed in his tweet stems from his pre-set views on this subject. As are countless others who are dead set on making Israel and Israeli's the complete villains in this and are utterly unable to process the news that on this occasion, they may not be responsible.

[Daily Express bot]

Bbc Sounds Emergency Prog (To make amends for their hash up?)

Available On Line Now Radio 4

[CEB]

Can’t find it on BBC sounds

[CEB]

The only thing labelled emergency episode is from yesterday?

[Dunners]

Regarding the 500+ reported casualties at the hospital last night...

It transpires that between 30 and 50 people were sheltering on a lawn near the courtyard. The blast and fire resulted in an unknown number of them being either injured or killed. The exact number of causalities is still to be determined, but will be a lot lower than the number put forward in the initial claims.

Aside from that, the hospital is continuing to operate and treat people as best as the medical staff are able to.

Reuters have released another photo of the site, and it is clear that this is the impact of small munitions and all-but confirms that it was a failed Hamas rocket landing and igniting a fuel fire.

[ComeOnYouOs]

Regarding the 500+ reported casualties at the hospital last night...

It transpires that between 30 and 50 people were sheltering on a lawn near the courtyard. The blast and fire resulted in an unknown number of them being either injured or killed. The exact number of causalities is still to be determined, but will be a lot lower than the number put forward in the initial claims.

Aside from that, the hospital is continuing to operate and treat people as best as the medical staff are able to.

Reuters have released another photo of the site, and it is clear that this is the impact of small munitions and all-but confirms that it was a failed Hamas rocket landing and igniting a fuel fire.

How does that photo confirm anything?

[Long slender neck]

Whats your research telling you about this one COYO?

[Proposition Joe]

Regarding the 500+ reported casualties at the hospital last night...

It transpires that between 30 and 50 people were sheltering on a lawn near the courtyard. The blast and fire resulted in an unknown number of them being either injured or killed. The exact number of causalities is still to be determined, but will be a lot lower than the number put forward in the initial claims.

Aside from that, the hospital is continuing to operate and treat people as best as the medical staff are able to.

Reuters have released another photo of the site, and it is clear that this is the impact of small munitions and all-but confirms that it was a failed Hamas rocket landing and igniting a fuel fire.

I don't know how any of us are able to safely draw conclusions with the array of 'facts' and conjecture from both sides, but this thread seems to raise some reasonable counterpoints to a lot of the positions outlined above:

[Proposition Joe]

Felt real Rafa Benitez vibes when I typed 'facts', as it goes.