Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:39 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:39 am She has absolutely no stand out qualities or characteristics. Endlessly uses the word communities in the vapid way that no mark politicians do. Other than loyalty to Corbyn, what are you voting for with her?

Err let me see. I know, aside from her obviously defective personality you could consider the policies she is putting forward.

Your visceral hatred of this woman is clearly visible and worrying. It's time Labour had a woman leader.

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:51 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:39 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:39 am She has absolutely no stand out qualities or characteristics. Endlessly uses the word communities in the vapid way that no mark politicians do. Other than loyalty to Corbyn, what are you voting for with her?

Err let me see. I know, aside from her obviously defective personality you could consider the policies she is putting forward.

Your visceral hatred of this woman is clearly visible and worrying. It's time Labour had a woman leader.

Yeah, all those working class ex-Labour voters in Rotherham, Burnley and Wrexham are thinking "you know something, what Labour really needs is a female leader"

Embarrassingly out of touch and nothing has been learned since December 12

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:38 pm Wasn't aware that I'd posted about her before on here.

She seems quite nice, but has that stilted way of speaking in clichés that people who are massively over promoted always do. Cruel of the Corbyn lot to force her to run tbh.

Also if we're ranking on policies, she's basically advocating all the policies that were rejected at the last election. So she has to come from a force of personality perspective. Which, to put it kindly, she's going to struggle with.

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:45 pm Been impressed with Nandy so far this campaign. She's got my vote as things stand

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:11 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:45 pm Been impressed with Nandy so far this campaign. She's got my vote as things stand

I saw all 4 candidates on Newsnight last night. Starmer seemed a waffler, will always use 30 words when ten would suffice, ducks and dives and avoids answering any hard questions. Thornberry as usual, talking all about herself and waffles away endlessly. Long Bailey was better than I thought she would, more direct than Starmer and Thornberry and seems to have a bit of steel in her, sharp and penetrating eyes that see right through you, but for me, the standout performer was Lisa Nandy, says it as it is and more in touch with the normal aspirations, problems and lives of working class people. She was also far brighter than I imagined, also she does NOT duck hard questions like Starmer and Thornberry, problem is she will not get the job, seems like it is already sewed up between Starmer and long Bailey. Lisa Nandy is a likable and intelligent woman, also seems to be a trustworthy, a quality not to be dismissed, she would win over many votes for Labour if elected as Leader..........but she WONT be chosen.....dont think !

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:55 pm The leader position isn't Labour's biggest problem. After all, previous Labour Prime Ministers were also well removed from the salt of the earth/working class masses they claimed to represent.

The issue for Labour is how it's membership base has drifted so far from their traditional voter base in terms of ideology. A truck driver from Rotherham and a Momentum activist from Hammersmith will be poles apart on both economic and social policies. There will be little that will unite them and they may even be repulsed by each other.

Yet that same truck driver may find they can relate to social policies supported by the Tories. Boris/Cummings clocked that all they had to do was signal a slight move left on economic policy and they could hoover up votes from the likes of our Rotherham truck driver. And that, along with "Get Brexit Done" is exactly what happened.

It's not all Corbyn's fault however. Or the current Labour party as a whole. Labour started shedding those voters back in the Blair/Brown days. Losing Scotland was also a sign of this. Only then it was Farage and UKIP that captured those English voters. And once they'd broken their connection with Labour it simply made the step of voting Tory a lot easier for them.

The problem for Labour is in reconciling these differences and appealing to Scottish and Northern voters again. And I'm not sure any of the senior Labour figures understand that problem, never mind have any idea of how to solve it. Brexit was the final nail in the coffin, but anyone thinking that it was all down to Brexit is deluding themselves.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:15 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:11 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:45 pm Been impressed with Nandy so far this campaign. She's got my vote as things stand

I saw all 4 candidates on Newsnight last night. Starmer seemed a waffler, will always use 30 words when ten would suffice, ducks and dives and avoids answering any hard questions. Thornberry as usual, talking all about herself and waffles away endlessly. Long Bailey was better than I thought she would, more direct than Starmer and Thornberry and seems to have a bit of steel in her, sharp and penetrating eyes that see right through you, but for me, the standout performer was Lisa Nandy, says it as it is and more in touch with the normal aspirations, problems and lives of working class people. She was also far brighter than I imagined, also she does NOT duck hard questions like Starmer and Thornberry, problem is she will not get the job, seems like it is already sewed up between Starmer and long Bailey. Lisa Nandy is a likable and intelligent woman, also seems to be a trustworthy, a quality not to be dismissed, she would win over many votes for Labour if elected as Leader..........but she WONT be chosen.....dont think !

Are you ok with Nandy's dad being a Marxist?

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:27 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:15 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:11 pm

I saw all 4 candidates on Newsnight last night. Starmer seemed a waffler, will always use 30 words when ten would suffice, ducks and dives and avoids answering any hard questions. Thornberry as usual, talking all about herself and waffles away endlessly. Long Bailey was better than I thought she would, more direct than Starmer and Thornberry and seems to have a bit of steel in her, sharp and penetrating eyes that see right through you, but for me, the standout performer was Lisa Nandy, says it as it is and more in touch with the normal aspirations, problems and lives of working class people. She was also far brighter than I imagined, also she does NOT duck hard questions like Starmer and Thornberry, problem is she will not get the job, seems like it is already sewed up between Starmer and long Bailey. Lisa Nandy is a likable and intelligent woman, also seems to be a trustworthy, a quality not to be dismissed, she would win over many votes for Labour if elected as Leader..........but she WONT be chosen.....dont think !

Are you ok with Nandy's dad being a Marxist?

Yes I knew that, I read up about her on Wikipedia, yes I like her as do many others. Funny as I write this, all four are on the BBC news in front of a studio audience being interviewed by Victoria Derbyshire, just says this happened this morning. The thing is with Lisa is that people like her and she is down to earth, sensible, is caring and hs some good ideas and ticks many peoples boxes. But Labour will either pick Starmer, who is a waffler with little to no charisma or Long Baily who will not get the backing of many of the Labour MPs or the electorate in general.

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:25 am Play the ball and not the man for once. What makes you think RLB would be a good leader who'd make Labour electable?

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:38 pm Wasn't aware that I'd posted about her before on here.

She seems quite nice, but has that stilted way of speaking in clichés that people who are massively over promoted always do. Cruel of the Corbyn lot to force her to run tbh.

Also if we're ranking on policies, she's basically advocating all the policies that were rejected at the last election. So she has to come from a force of personality perspective. Which, to put it kindly, she's going to struggle with.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:17 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:38 pm Wasn't aware that I'd posted about her before on here.

She seems quite nice, but has that stilted way of speaking in clichés that people who are massively over promoted always do. Cruel of the Corbyn lot to force her to run tbh.

Also if we're ranking on policies, she's basically advocating all the policies that were rejected at the last election. So she has to come from a force of personality perspective. Which, to put it kindly, she's going to struggle with.

Which policies were rejected at the last election please?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:31 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:27 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:15 pm
Much as I would prefer a Labour government Max the party has never ever been a fully democratic organisation, everything is fixed by the power blocs within it. At present the left is in control so nothing much will change, certainly in terms of electability. Getting rid of those that disagree with the leadership is only going to make this worse.

Mikero

Are you ok with Nandy's dad being a Marxist?

Yes I knew that, I read up about her on Wikipedia, yes I like her as do many others. Funny as I write this, all four are on the BBC news in front of a studio audience being interviewed by Victoria Derbyshire, just says this happened this morning. The thing is with Lisa is that people like her and she is down to earth, sensible, is caring and hs some good ideas and ticks many peoples boxes. But Labour will either pick Starmer, who is a waffler with little to no charisma or Long Baily who will not get the backing of many of the Labour MPs or the electorate in general.

If there are Labour MPs who cannot accept the outcome of a democratic election and get behind the leader they need to leave. Their presence is clearly serving another agenda not Labour's.

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:25 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:17 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:38 pm Wasn't aware that I'd posted about her before on here.

She seems quite nice, but has that stilted way of speaking in clichés that people who are massively over promoted always do. Cruel of the Corbyn lot to force her to run tbh.

Also if we're ranking on policies, she's basically advocating all the policies that were rejected at the last election. So she has to come from a force of personality perspective. Which, to put it kindly, she's going to struggle with.

Which policies were rejected at the last election please?

None, Labour won the argument obvs

Fact they had their worst result for 85 years is immaterial

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:22 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:25 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:17 pm

Which policies were rejected at the last election please?

None, Labour won the argument obvs

Fact they had their worst result for 85 years is immaterial

They pulled in a lower share of the vote in 2015. And 2010. This ‘Worst result in 85 years’ stuff is a bit dramatic.

But regardless, which policies were rejected? I’d be delighted to know.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:07 pm funny that..i saw a poll that said 49% of those that had previously voted Labour, but voted Tory this time ( God forgive them), voted so, because of Brexit

In any case, i stopped believing any polls by You gov a long time ago. You gov is owned by Tories

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:57 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:22 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:25 pm

None, Labour won the argument obvs

Fact they had their worst result for 85 years is immaterial

They pulled in a lower share of the vote in 2015. And 2010. This ‘Worst result in 85 years’ stuff is a bit dramatic.

But regardless, which policies were rejected? I’d be delighted to know.

Yet achieved a higher seat count in both elections, it's not dramatic it's the truth. In a representative democracy under FPTP seat count is all that matters. Corbyn lead Labour to their worst result for 85 years, surpassing Michael Foot

I don't believe there's been any post-election polling on specific policies so its not possible to say which ones were rejected. However this is the polling data on reasons why voters left the party in Dec 2019 (I.e. the people the party need to win back)

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:54 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:57 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:22 pm

They pulled in a lower share of the vote in 2015. And 2010. This ‘Worst result in 85 years’ stuff is a bit dramatic.

But regardless, which policies were rejected? I’d be delighted to know.

Yet achieved a higher seat count in both elections, it's not dramatic it's the truth. In a representative democracy under FPTP seat count is all that matters. Corbyn lead Labour to their worst result for 85 years, surpassing Michael Foot

I don't believe there's been any post-election polling on specific policies so its not possible to say which ones were rejected. However this is the polling data on reasons why voters left the party in Dec 2019 (I.e. the people the party need to win back)

Not sure how that answers which policies were rejected?