Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:48 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:27 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:53 pm

I'm not trying anything

Merely reporting statisics, I don't know why you get wound up every time I post facts but it is entertaining

Another fact, around 90% of those in hospital with Covid are people who have not received the Covid vaccination. These many un-vaccinated people with Covid who need hospital treatment, are holding back the treatment of many other patients who need urgent treatment for various types of critical illnesses.

Proof please Sid for this claim.

Been posted multiple times on this thread. Just look back and you'll find it.

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:51 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:48 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:27 pm

Another fact, around 90% of those in hospital with Covid are people who have not received the Covid vaccination. These many un-vaccinated people with Covid who need hospital treatment, are holding back the treatment of many other patients who need urgent treatment for various types of critical illnesses.

Proof please Sid for this claim.

Been posted multiple times on this thread. Just look back and you'll find it.

What BJ stammering out that 90% of people hadn't been boosted, which was, at best a manipulation of statistics and a time of a national emergency, and at worst, a lie (as stated in Curry's link above).

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:34 pm 909 deaths in the last week according to govt data site . George doesnt include those in his "still no increase in death statements" . Only up 50 % on the previous 7 day figures!

You sure about that? The 7 day average has stayed about the same on Gov. UK website

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:58 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:34 pm 909 deaths in the last week according to govt data site . George doesnt include those in his "still no increase in death statements" . Only up 50 % on the previous 7 day figures!

You sure about that? The 7 day average has stayed about the same on Gov. UK website

coronavirus.data.gov.uk says so

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:56 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:51 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:48 pm

Proof please Sid for this claim.

Been posted multiple times on this thread. Just look back and you'll find it.

What BJ stammering out that 90% of people hadn't been boosted, which was, at best a manipulation of statistics and a time of a national emergency, and at worst, a lie (as stated in Curry's link above).

Nope. The percentage of unvaccinated people in hospital varies over time. The BMJ link posted by Curry points this out as it's data (for ICU patients) only goes as far as 15th December and Omicron has advanced a lot since then. There is also confusion about what is "unvaccinated". Some might say this means having no jabs at all (the literal meaning) or not having the booster jab (as it seems widely accepted that protection from jabs 1 & 2 has waned over time).

For overall "hospital admission" for Omicron patients - not necessarily progressing to needing ICU - the below quote is taken from the BMJ article:

The latest figures show that in the week to 29 December 2021 a total of 815 people with confirmed omicron infection were admitted from an emergency department to hospitals in England. Of these, 74% had not had three doses of vaccine—including 25% (206) who were unvaccinated, 6% (49) who had received one dose, and 43% (352) who had received two doses. Twenty three percent (189) had received a booster dose, and the remainder were unknown or had had their first dose less than three weeks ago.4

It's a complex calculation, but it could be argued that anyone who hasn't had the booster is not "fully vaccinated". It could also be argued that people who aren't fully vaccinated, and who subsequently need hospital admission are complicit in adding unnecessary pressure on the NHS, which is, I think, the point Sid was making.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:05 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:58 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:34 pm 909 deaths in the last week according to govt data site . George doesnt include those in his "still no increase in death statements" . Only up 50 % on the previous 7 day figures!

You sure about that? The 7 day average has stayed about the same on Gov. UK website

coronavirus.data.gov.uk says so

Nope, can't see that on there.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:35 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:27 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:53 pm

I'm not trying anything

Merely reporting statisics, I don't know why you get wound up every time I post facts but it is entertaining

Another fact, around 90% of those in hospital with Covid are people who have not received the Covid vaccination. These many un-vaccinated people with Covid who need hospital treatment, are holding back the treatment of many other patients who need urgent treatment for various types of critical illnesses.

Whilst I agree about unvaccinated people being a drain the 90% figure that is regularly quoted is wrong

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5

This BMJ article is a bit disingenuous to me and doesn't actually say the 90% figure is wrong.

Boris Johnson said today on the press briefing that 61% of people in ICU (and therefore seriously ill) were unvaccinated, and "the overwhelming majority" (90%) unboosted.

The BMJ article quotes Boris as having said "90% of patients in ICU are not boosted" and goes on to say "other media reports suggest 80-90% of people in ICU are unvaccinated". In this case "other media reports" is a Guardian article (https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... vaccinated), with various quotes about 80-90% of patients being unvaccinated, which may well be the case in specific hospitals or trusts.

The BMJ article then goes on to ask "Are these reports accurate"? It references the 61% of unvaccinated in ICU as per the ICNARC report, but doesn't mention anywhere that I can see that the same chart in the same ICNARC report says 10% of patients in ICU are boosted (ie 90% unboosted).

Another issue is the problem is that the ICNARC report has data to 15th December and is probably well out of date by now so I'd take any of these figures with a pinch of salt. We'll see what happens over the next couple of weeks when (a) all the data for Christmas is in and (b) the New Year celebrations unwind.

So, it's true to say 90% of people in some hospitals/trusts are unvaccinated (if you believe the quotes in the Guardian article) and Boris quotes are also true.

Some doing a lot of lifting there

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:50 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:05 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:58 pm

You sure about that? The 7 day average has stayed about the same on Gov. UK website

coronavirus.data.gov.uk says so

Nope, can't see that on there.

bottom right of the page , I can say my eyes were open to , so it wasnt hard to see .

Manchester hospitals to suspend operations , so they can concentrate on Covid patients . Well done bodge !

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:05 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:58 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:34 pm 909 deaths in the last week according to govt data site . George doesnt include those in his "still no increase in death statements" . Only up 50 % on the previous 7 day figures!

You sure about that? The 7 day average has stayed about the same on Gov. UK website

coronavirus.data.gov.uk says so

Deaths are lower now than with Delta. Around 40 a day according to latest figures. People are not hospitalised for as long and not dying

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:53 pm

George M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:02 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:09 pm 218,724 cases today (with tests hard to find)

Particularly infectious cold this season

And still no increase in deaths. Keep trying. Remember the Whitty prediction. 25-75 thousand deaths. Way out. Keep trying though

I'm not trying anything

Merely reporting statisics, I don't know why you get wound up every time I post facts but it is entertaining

Maybe it’s because of your childish dig about a bad cold. Which of course it is. When you stop that , I will stop responding. Grow up and face facts

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:47 pm

George M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:02 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:09 pm 218,724 cases today (with tests hard to find)

Particularly infectious cold this season

And still no increase in deaths. Keep trying. Remember the Whitty prediction. 25-75 thousand deaths. Way out. Keep trying though

That was before 35 millio booster jabs wasnt it ?

We only knew about Omicron mid November. Plenty of booster jabs had been administered by then.

George M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:24 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:05 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:58 pm

You sure about that? The 7 day average has stayed about the same on Gov. UK website

coronavirus.data.gov.uk says so

Deaths are lower now than with Delta. Around 40 a day according to latest figures. People are not hospitalised for as long and not dying

909 deaths in the last 7 days Georgie, omicro is now getting to the 50 +ers, im not sure the death rates are falling yet !

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:58 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:34 pm 909 deaths in the last week according to govt data site . George doesnt include those in his "still no increase in death statements" . Only up 50 % on the previous 7 day figures!

You sure about that? The 7 day average has stayed about the same on Gov. UK website

That’s good, as long as the number of people dying is the same, there’s nothing to worry about.

George M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:28 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:47 pm

George M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:02 pm

And still no increase in deaths. Keep trying. Remember the Whitty prediction. 25-75 thousand deaths. Way out. Keep trying though

That was before 35 millio booster jabs wasnt it ?

We only knew about Omicron mid November. Plenty of booster jabs had been administered by then.

But not to all just the vulnerables & over 60s

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:24 pm Manchester hospitals to suspend operations , so they can concentrate on Covid patients . Well done bodge !

News at 10 for those who want to know ITN .

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:05 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:58 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:34 pm 909 deaths in the last week according to govt data site . George doesnt include those in his "still no increase in death statements" . Only up 50 % on the previous 7 day figures!

You sure about that? The 7 day average has stayed about the same on Gov. UK website

coronavirus.data.gov.uk says so

Which is the same as it has been for months. No increase. Omicron has had no impact on death rates. Around 40 deaths yesterday. Lower than the 150 plus 2-3 weeks ago.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:30 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:58 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:34 pm 909 deaths in the last week according to govt data site . George doesnt include those in his "still no increase in death statements" . Only up 50 % on the previous 7 day figures!

You sure about that? The 7 day average has stayed about the same on Gov. UK website

That’s good, as long as the number of people dying is the same, there’s nothing to worry about.

Hate to tell you this but we will not lower death rates while this virus hangs about. We can only contain them. So yes , as long as the death rates remain the same , it’s a good result.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:33 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:24 pm Manchester hospitals to suspend operations , so they can concentrate on Covid patients . Well done bodge !

News at 10 for those who want to know ITN .

Hospitals have been suspending operations for two years. Please tell me how Boris could have done anymore with a virus that spread around the country before we knew it was here. Like he says , we can move operations to other areas. Perhaps the people of Manchester should spend more time adhering to the rules

George M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:38 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:30 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:58 pm

You sure about that? The 7 day average has stayed about the same on Gov. UK website

That’s good, as long as the number of people dying is the same, there’s nothing to worry about.

Hate to tell you this but we will not lower death rates while this virus hangs about. We can only contain them. So yes , as long as the death rates remain the same , it’s a good result.

George M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:35 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:05 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:58 pm

You sure about that? The 7 day average has stayed about the same on Gov. UK website

coronavirus.data.gov.uk says so

Which is the same as it has been for months. No increase. Omicron has had no impact on death rates. Around 40 deaths yesterday. Lower than the 150 plus 2-3 weeks ago.

No its notGeorgie , its up 50.1% on the previous 7 days !! 909 covid deaths in the last 7 days !

George M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:41 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:33 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:24 pm Manchester hospitals to suspend operations , so they can concentrate on Covid patients . Well done bodge !

News at 10 for those who want to know ITN .

Hospitals have been suspending operations for two years. Please tell me how Boris could have done anymore with a virus that spread around the country before we knew it was here. Like he says , we can move operations to other areas. Perhaps the people of Manchester should spend more time adhering to the rules

Do you really need someone to post, yet again, the long, long list of ways in which this government have f*cked up and f*cked us over?

George M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:41 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:33 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:24 pm Manchester hospitals to suspend operations , so they can concentrate on Covid patients . Well done bodge !

News at 10 for those who want to know ITN .

Hospitals have been suspending operations for two years. Please tell me how Boris could have done anymore with a virus that spread around the country before we knew it was here. Like he says , we can move operations to other areas. Perhaps the people of Manchester should spend more time adhering to the rules

Again Georgie , No they havent been suspending ops for 2 years , parts of the last 2 years yes, but not for 2 years, all bodge has to do is move from plan b to plan b2.0 . Its simple , alas we just have to wait for another bodge U-turn.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:44 pm

George M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:41 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:33 pm

News at 10 for those who want to know ITN .

Hospitals have been suspending operations for two years. Please tell me how Boris could have done anymore with a virus that spread around the country before we knew it was here. Like he says , we can move operations to other areas. Perhaps the people of Manchester should spend more time adhering to the rules

Do you really need someone to post, yet again, the long, long list of ways in which this government have f*cked up and f*cked us over?

I think he does frankfurter !