Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Nobody on here called her a woke bitch.

Here’s a tweet by her organisation defending the campaign.
824k views. 88 likes. Comments off, loads of quotes.

Read some of them - most of them are people with uteruses putting her right on some points she’s unsure of, and then get back to me.

Good point well made

Also, “only yes means yes”, as the hash tag says, just isn’t true. It’s a statement designed to serve the campaign, not to serve the reality of how people actually navigate sexual relationships. I guess its not as catchy to say

“consent isn’t a simple ‘yes’ that can be asked for by someone who wants sex, and then assumed to be in place once the “yes” is out there: consent is actually a process of ongoing active communication, listening and responding to what your partner is telling you with their words and with their actions, and consent can be withdrawn at any moment, without any reason required”

(Which is another major flaw with this. Good luck to any woman accusing a man of rape if a woman changes her mind about sex after initially saying “yes”)

Reductive nonsense like this is good for tweets (or rather, in a meeting somewhere, someone assumed it would be good for tweets) but in practice, it’s fundamentally, significantly flawed at best.

It’s a campaign that seems to have been one of the few examples of a thing that unites the terfs and the tras



(Seeing loads of takes like this)

And one from a terf

On this one, HA, your instincts are representative of what’s bad about “wokeness”: rather than think critically about a thing, you looked to the apparent credentials of someone saying something, and assumed that the authority you assume she has means criticism must be in bad faith.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:14 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 4:41 pm Yeah, that'd be me. No reason. Didn't think it would kick off like this.

https://www.charlotteproudman.com/

What a woke bitch.

Good to see some guys on the internet putting this award winning barrister of rape right on a few points she was unsure of.

Personally, I think Woke Mistress General is a pretty cool title.

Also true

CEB wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:30 pm most of them are people with uteruses

You just wouldn’t let it lie.

CEB wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:49 pm And one from a terf

Interesting to see that you are commenting on your own posta when you can’t find anyone to argue with pointlessly.
Sad really.

CEB wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:51 pm On this one, HA, your instincts are representative of what’s bad about “wokeness”: rather than think critically about a thing, you looked to the apparent credentials of someone saying something, and assumed that the authority you assume she has means criticism must be in bad faith.

I didn't look to the credentials of the campaigner - apparent or otherwise - until she was labelled as 'Woke Mistress General' when the story was first relayed on here.

I think she’s a bit of a grifter

Grift Mistress General, then? The problem is, I reckon she's lose out in a fight to the likes of Jack Monroe or Supertanskiii

For what it's worth here's the link to the review of the change in law in Sweden, to me it appears to be a balanced report and points out some of the flaws, although they don't seem to have found any evidence of CEB's assertion that it might make it harder for some people to seek remedy or there is a trade off somewhere. I agree that it doesn't help in situations of ongoing exploitative situations, but just because it doesn't solve all problems doesn't mean it is a terrible approach, I just can't see any logic in the argument that it somehow offers less protection to anyone who is a victim.

https://bra.se/download/18.7d27ebd916ea ... actice.pdf

It clearly says the change in law has contributed to an increase in complaints and prosecutions and has lead to convictions in cases which previously would not have been prosecutable. It also specifically mentions the point I made that CEB appeared to completely misunderstand. The woman who told me that she believed she was raped said one of the things she found most difficult to deal with was feeling that she was not being able to report it or confront the person saying unequivocally "you raped me" because she froze rather than resisted, she said she felt stupid for not doing so.

"One positive consequence of the change to the law, which has also been identified by those who work with people who have been subjected to sexual assault, is that they are now less likely to shoulder the blame for what happened, and that they now have the opportunity to seek legal redress by reporting the crime."

I don't know anything about the person fronting the campaign or care to find out, I also don't think my view on whether the way the campaign is being promoted is a good idea has any relevance - I know I don't have the knowledge or experience to justify any view. My only point is that the evidence is there that a change of law would not be "doomed to fail", "counterproductive", or "would do more harm than good".

…shouted Mick as he runs up the stairs, refusing to debate with argumentative old CEB

Happy International Women's Day by the way, guys.

And to you x

What is it with your need to be debated, CEB?

You post an average of nearly 6 times a day, I post an average of once every 3 days, mainly on the wordle thread when I find someone cheating. I usually use my phone which is best suited to a quick snidey comment rather than a thought out argument, I literally can't keep up with you. I'm really sorry but I just can't be arsed most of the time.

You are of course equally free to respond or not to anything I comment on, including declaring a total vindication of your views when I don't reply.

“What is it with your need to be debated?”

Simply this: if I put forward the best argument for my position and it’s met with a better argument for an opposing position, I have good grounds to evolve my understanding of an issue.

From that perspective, debate is not some edgy poo poo said by someone who wants to destroy someone’s opinion, but is the best way to make sure that one’s own opinion is legitimate and credible. In other words, I debate my position not because I think I’m right but because I think hearing the best arguments against myself are a good way of ensuring I’m doing my best to move towards being right.

To me, it genuinely seems weirder to express a view and then find the idea that it might be worth debating it to be something to be contemptuous of.

As I said, I’d happily discuss the issue we’re discussing on here in good faith, because I can see that your opinion is genuinely held even while disagreeing with some of your interpretation of it. Or you can roll your eyes at me again with the dismissive inference that it’s all beneath you. Either way is fine.

Would you like me to honestly engage with your previous post? I’m happy to do so.

Safeguarding and sh*t-Stirring Supremo Samantha Bhagwandas found guilty of wasting everyone's time and money with this woke witchhunt of colleague.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/ ... 44003.html

(Is this how we do it?)

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:15 am

Simply this: if I put forward the best argument for my position and it’s met with a better argument for an opposing position, I have good grounds to evolve my understanding of an issue.

Aye, right

Self deprecating satire. The best there is of all the satire genres.

Guess who's back...

YES!

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:08 pm

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:15 am

Simply this: if I put forward the best argument for my position and it’s met with a better argument for an opposing position, I have good grounds to evolve my understanding of an issue.

Aye, right

Self deprecating satire. The best there is of all the satire genres.

Maxyyy! I missed you despite myself you big wally

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:30 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:08 pm

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:15 am

Simply this: if I put forward the best argument for my position and it’s met with a better argument for an opposing position, I have good grounds to evolve my understanding of an issue.

Aye, right

Self deprecating satire. The best there is of all the satire genres.

Maxyyy! I missed you despite myself you big wally

After having semi retired from Boarding on the grounds that the Board has become moribund and not having posted for over 4 months I knew I had to come back with a bang.

HA gave me the idea in the thread begging me to come back. Anyway, see youse all in another 4 months.