Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:38 pm**

One last thing Max , 90 % of people in hospital currently with COVID are unvaccinated and 50% of those diagnosed with Omicron are in hospital for other reasons and test positive in hospital. That has been announced in the last hour

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:45 pm**

George wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:38 pm One last thing Max , 90 % of people in hospital currently with COVID are unvaccinated and 50% of those diagnosed with Omicron are in hospital for other reasons and test positive in hospital. That has been announced in the last hour

Can you tell me your source when you state 90% of people in hospital with covid are unvaccinated?
Thanks

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:46 pm**

George wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:01 pm
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:51 pm The science is solid. Its a political decision to allow no masks in pubs and restaurants, that and it'd make it difficult to eat and drink with one on.
The Tories have made some good but more bad decisions here. You have criticised their lack of leadership on this. And yet you are happy to believe that I have to wear a mask in a shop , but not wear one while I get pissed in a busy pub or restaurant. In Covent Garden on Saturday you could not move. Every pub was packed to the rafters . You couldn’t get a table in a restaurant. No masks in site or necessary. Come on. You are more intelligent than that.
If it’s just me who thinks that this particular restriction is ridiculous then I will hold my hands up and stop posting.

Doesn't this come under 'Personal Responsibility'? I think it'd be quite moronic to go into a packed pub at the moment without a mask.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:53 pm**

Il Divo singer dies aged 53.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:01 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:53 pm Il Divo singer dies aged 53.

Ill Divo

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:03 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:46 pm
George wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:01 pm
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:51 pm The science is solid. Its a political decision to allow no masks in pubs and restaurants, that and it'd make it difficult to eat and drink with one on.
The Tories have made some good but more bad decisions here. You have criticised their lack of leadership on this. And yet you are happy to believe that I have to wear a mask in a shop , but not wear one while I get pissed in a busy pub or restaurant. In Covent Garden on Saturday you could not move. Every pub was packed to the rafters . You couldn’t get a table in a restaurant. No masks in site or necessary. Come on. You are more intelligent than that.
If it’s just me who thinks that this particular restriction is ridiculous then I will hold my hands up and stop posting.
Doesn't this come under 'Personal Responsibility'? I think it'd be quite moronic to go into a packed pub at the moment without a mask.

If it’s a political decision not to wear a mask in a pub , as you say , why is it moronic to do so.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:07 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:45 pm
George wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:38 pm One last thing Max , 90 % of people in hospital currently with COVID are unvaccinated and 50% of those diagnosed with Omicron are in hospital for other reasons and test positive in hospital. That has been announced in the last hour
Can you tell me your source when you state 90% of people in hospital with covid are unvaccinated?
Thanks

It’s from the same peer reviewed scientist that I usually quote , Dr John Campbell. He presents the facts as they are . It’s for you to to check the government links provided for authenticity.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:08 pm**

Its a political decision to make the rules that say you don't need to wear one in those environments.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:09 pm**

George M wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:03 pm
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:46 pm
George wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:01 pm

The Tories have made some good but more bad decisions here. You have criticised their lack of leadership on this. And yet you are happy to believe that I have to wear a mask in a shop , but not wear one while I get pissed in a busy pub or restaurant. In Covent Garden on Saturday you could not move. Every pub was packed to the rafters . You couldn’t get a table in a restaurant. No masks in site or necessary. Come on. You are more intelligent than that.
If it’s just me who thinks that this particular restriction is ridiculous then I will hold my hands up and stop posting.
Doesn't this come under 'Personal Responsibility'? I think it'd be quite moronic to go into a packed pub at the moment without a mask.
If it’s a political decision not to wear a mask in a pub , as you say , why is it moronic to do so.

Apologies. Why is it moronic not to wear one.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:11 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:08 pm Its a political decision to make the rules that say you don't need to wear one in those environments.

Nobody was. So it was fine. All following the rules as they are. We are going around in circles. I believe we should wear them in all indoor situations or not at all.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:12 pm**

Because it increases your risk of spreading and catching covid, duh. Do we really have to keep going over this?

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:13 pm**

George M wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:11 pm
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:08 pm Its a political decision to make the rules that say you don't need to wear one in those environments.
Nobody was. So it was fine. All following the rules as they are. We are going around in circles. I believe we should wear them in all indoor situations or not at all.

Wear one then, its the right thing to do.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:20 pm**

Off topic, but what's the deal with the M after Thoerge and idontkn0's name?

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:23 pm**

I appreciate that it’s more difficult discussing like this rather than face to face. My views are that the current mask rules are not fit for purpose. I would rather no mask wearing for this current variant but , if we are to wear them , we should wear them in all public areas. It’s all immaterial anyway. It’s here. It’s dominant. All evidence points to it displacing Delta. And before long , despite the obvious politically motivated efforts by the French , it will spread over the whole of Europe.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:42 pm**

George M wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:01 pm
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:51 pm The science is solid. Its a political decision to allow no masks in pubs and restaurants, that and it'd make it difficult to eat and drink with one on.
The Tories have made some good but more bad decisions here. You have criticised their lack of leadership on this. And yet you are happy to believe that I have to wear a mask in a shop , but not wear one while I get pissed in a busy pub or restaurant. In Covent Garden on Saturday you could not move. Every pub was packed to the rafters . You couldn’t get a table in a restaurant. No masks in site or necessary. Come on. You are more intelligent than that.
If it’s just me who thinks that this particular restriction is ridiculous then I will hold my hands up and stop posting.

maybe they want rid of the p155heads !

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:44 pm**

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:20 pm Off topic, but what's the deal with the M after Thoerge and idontkn0's name?

its a variant mutation .

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:33 pm**

George M wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:07 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:45 pm
George wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:38 pm One last thing Max , 90 % of people in hospital currently with COVID are unvaccinated and 50% of those diagnosed with Omicron are in hospital for other reasons and test positive in hospital. That has been announced in the last hour
Can you tell me your source when you state 90% of people in hospital with covid are unvaccinated?
Thanks
It’s from the same peer reviewed scientist that I usually quote , Dr John Campbell. He presents the facts as they are . It’s for you to to check the government links provided for authenticity.

The 90% that you wrote is a myth.
Around the 6th December, the number in hospital with covid that were unvaccinated was 36%. Not 90%

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:42 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:33 pm
George M wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:07 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:45 pm

Can you tell me your source when you state 90% of people in hospital with covid are unvaccinated?
Thanks
It’s from the same peer reviewed scientist that I usually quote , Dr John Campbell. He presents the facts as they are . It’s for you to to check the government links provided for authenticity.
The 90% that you wrote is a myth.
Around the 6th December, the number in hospital with covid that were unvaccinated was 36%. Not 90%

Think it might have been the ICU occupancy that had such a high proportion of unvaccinated people rather than hospitals generally.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:42 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:33 pm
George M wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:07 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:45 pm

Can you tell me your source when you state 90% of people in hospital with covid are unvaccinated?
Thanks
It’s from the same peer reviewed scientist that I usually quote , Dr John Campbell. He presents the facts as they are . It’s for you to to check the government links provided for authenticity.
The 90% that you wrote is a myth.
Around the 6th December, the number in hospital with covid that were unvaccinated was 36%. Not 90%

Prove it.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:47 pm**

George M wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:51 pm
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:38 pm
George wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:21 pm

That’s your view. I would be more convinced if we were to wear masks in all indoor situations. I am afraid that I don’t care for wearing masks in the corner shop with two others , but not in the pub next door with 100 others. If you can convince me otherwise then I would happily argue with you.
It’s not my view.

Are you honestly saying that you think the risk of the virus spreading from one person to another is not reduced by wearing masks?

Are you really saying that? If so, there is literally no point anyone carrying this on with you.
Ronnie , I am saying that wearing a mask in all indoor situations would reduce the risk of spreading the virus. Anything less is as good as pointless.

This just doesn’t make any sense.

Posted: **Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:01 am**

George M wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:07 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:45 pm
George wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:38 pm One last thing Max , 90 % of people in hospital currently with COVID are unvaccinated and 50% of those diagnosed with Omicron are in hospital for other reasons and test positive in hospital. That has been announced in the last hour
Can you tell me your source when you state 90% of people in hospital with covid are unvaccinated?
Thanks
It’s from the same peer reviewed scientist that I usually quote , Dr John Campbell. He presents the facts as they are . It’s for you to to check the government links provided for authenticity.

This Dr John Campbell?

John L. Campbell is a British social media influencer and retired nurse educator who has posted a number of YouTube videos on his "Dr. John Campbell" channel commenting on the COVID-19 pandemic. Campbell has made false claims about the use of the antiparasitic drug ivermectin as a COVID-19 treatment.

In November 2021, Campbell said in a video that Ivermectin might have been responsible for a sudden decline in COVID-19 cases in Japan. In reality, the drug had never been officially authorised for such use in the country—its use was merely promoted by the chair of a non-governmental medical association in Tokyo, and it has no established benefit as a COVID-19 treatment. Meaghan Kall, the Lead Epidemiologist at the UK Health Security Agency said that Campbell was confusing causation and correlation, and that even so there was no evidence of ivermectin use in Japan; rather, the story was based on "anecdata on social media driving wildly damaging misinformation".

In November 2021, Campbell quoted from a non-peer-reviewed journal abstract by Steven Gundry saying that mRNA vaccines might cause heart problems. Campbell said he was not sure about the claim or its quality, but did not mention the expression of concern that had been published for the abstract, saying instead that it could be "incredibly significant". The video was viewed over 2 million times within a few weeks and was seized upon by anti-vaccination activists as support for the misinformation that vaccines cause heart attacks.

Yeah, he presents the facts as they are. Of course he does.

He's not even a medical doctor - he's a doctor of philosophy - but you carry on quoting this retired quack if you want to.

Posted: **Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:39 am**

Posted: **Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:51 am**

Posted: **Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:12 am**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:33 pm
George M wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:07 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:45 pm

Can you tell me your source when you state 90% of people in hospital with covid are unvaccinated?
Thanks
It’s from the same peer reviewed scientist that I usually quote , Dr John Campbell. He presents the facts as they are . It’s for you to to check the government links provided for authenticity.
The 90% that you wrote is a myth.
Around the 6th December, the number in hospital with covid that were unvaccinated was 36%. Not 90%

It was Sajid Javid that mentioned 90% in an interview with Trevor Phillips yesterday (www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLapvTPRl_8, about 4.50 in, Dr. John Campbell is just quoting him in a different youtube video), but what Javid actually said was that 90% of the most serious hospital admissions are unvaccinated (though he didn't define exactly what that meant, probably ICU), not 90% of all hospital admissions.

This highlights the benefits of everyone being up to date with vaccinations -it may not keep all people out of hospital (vaccinated or not) but it's a significant factor in avoiding serious illness or death.

It's also something hospital staff have expressed dismay about, that unvaccinated people are using up a disproportionate amount of hospital resources.

Posted: **Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:43 am**

faldO wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:12 am
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:33 pm
George M wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:07 pm

It’s from the same peer reviewed scientist that I usually quote , Dr John Campbell. He presents the facts as they are . It’s for you to to check the government links provided for authenticity.
The 90% that you wrote is a myth.
Around the 6th December, the number in hospital with covid that were unvaccinated was 36%. Not 90%
It was Sajid Javid that mentioned 90% in an interview with Trevor Phillips yesterday (www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLapvTPRl_8, about 4.50 in, Dr. John Campbell is just quoting him in a different youtube video), but what Javid actually said was that 90% of the most serious hospital admissions are unvaccinated (though he didn't define exactly what that meant, probably ICU), not 90% of all hospital admissions.

This highlights the benefits of everyone being up to date with vaccinations -it may not keep all people out of hospital (vaccinated or not) but it's a significant factor in avoiding serious illness or death.

It's also something hospital staff have expressed dismay about, that unvaccinated people are using up a disproportionate amount of hospital resources.

If the Tories had not slashed the number of NHS beds over the last 11 years it might not matter so much about who occupies them because there would be more to go round.

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