Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:07 pm 78k cases reported today.

Wowsers.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:39 pm Are any bookies taking bets on whether Johnson will cancel Christmas again? I know he will resist as much as possible, but that's got to be worth a punt.

He can say what he wants, but I wonder how many people will stick two fingers up and see their families anyway over Christmas

I think it also depends if hospitalisation goes up to match the increase in infections. Early data from South Africa suggests it does not. In fact it is 27% down from their last wave.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:21 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:07 pm 78k cases reported today.

Wowsers.

This isn't helping...

Not surprising given London's ethnic diversity and the fact 41% of Black and 26% of Asian over 16s are unvaccinated (compared to 15% of white o/16's) nationwide

Factor in London's population is on average younger as well and it makes for a vaccination problem

Why are the ethnic minorities getting off lightly about this? If it was the other way around and blacks were all vaccinated and whites were not the BBC would be beating itself off for weeks. It’s disgraceful that these communities are not getting vaccinated. They are killing people.

Yeah, weird that ethnic minority groups have less trust in government and health authorities, isn’t it. Can’t imagine why.

Can we really not do this please?

You’re not up for challenging ignorant opinions?

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:48 pm You’re not up for challenging ignorant opinions?

I'm assuming (hoping) he was directing his comment to Beradogs.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:06 pm Why are the ethnic minorities getting off lightly about this? If it was the other way around and blacks were all vaccinated and whites were not the BBC would be beating itself off for weeks. It’s disgraceful that these communities are not getting vaccinated. They are killing people.

Yes, mostly each other. Surprising that that displeases you.

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:33 pm Yeah, weird that ethnic minority groups have less trust in government and health authorities, isn’t it. Can’t imagine why.

Actually on most recent statistics, mistrust in government advice was only the joint fourth reason for rejecting the vaccine

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:43 pm

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:33 pm Yeah, weird that ethnic minority groups have less trust in government and health authorities, isn’t it. Can’t imagine why.

Actually on most recent statistics, mistrust in government advice was only the joint fourth reason for rejecting the vaccine

Out of interest what were the top reasons?

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:44 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:43 pm

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:33 pm Yeah, weird that ethnic minority groups have less trust in government and health authorities, isn’t it. Can’t imagine why.

Actually on most recent statistics, mistrust in government advice was only the joint fourth reason for rejecting the vaccine

Out of interest what were the top reasons?

1. Developed too quickly
2. I'll wait and see
=4. Not enough evidence

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:50 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:44 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:43 pm

Actually on most recent statistics, mistrust in government advice was only the joint fourth reason for rejecting the vaccine

Out of interest what were the top reasons?

1. Developed too quickly
2. I'll wait and see
=4. Not enough evidence

Exactly. It’s a lack of education and peer pressure. Nothing more.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:50 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:44 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:43 pm

Actually on most recent statistics, mistrust in government advice was only the joint fourth reason for rejecting the vaccine

Out of interest what were the top reasons?

1. Developed too quickly
2. I'll wait and see
=4. Not enough evidence

Would be interested to read that - can I have a link?

Brexit-voting areas hit hardest by covid

https://www.euronews.com/2021/12/14/bre ... tudy-finds

Research by Ludovic Phalippou of the University of Oxford and Betty H.T. Wu of the University of Glasgow has claimed to have found a direct correlation between Brexit-voting districts of the UK and those that have the highest rate of fatalities from COVID-19.

For the authors, the results suggest that the same people who were swayed by the arguments in favour of Brexit -- which was defined by a distrust of political and financial elites and populist rhetoric shared via social media -- are also those that resist getting vaccinated against COVID-19 and have been hostile to lockdown measures including curfews and mask-wearing.

"There is a group of people in the population who just rejects any official advice, any mainstream advice, any expert advice,” Phalippou told Euronews.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:06 pm Why are the ethnic minorities getting off lightly about this? If it was the other way around and blacks were all vaccinated and whites were not the BBC would be beating itself off for weeks. It’s disgraceful that these communities are not getting vaccinated. They are killing people.

41% of 2m = 800k
26% of 4m = 1m
15% of 60m 9m

I wonder which one Bera, who is most definitely not racist and doesn’t even see colour, is going to have a little rant about?

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:39 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:50 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:44 pm

Out of interest what were the top reasons?

1. Developed too quickly
2. I'll wait and see
=4. Not enough evidence

Would be interested to read that - can I have a link?

Of course

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... tember2021

I actually made a mistake, it's actually joint 6th reason amongst unvaccinated people after the reasons I gave as well as fears about side effects and long term effects

Did they vote for Brexit though?

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:29 pm

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:39 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:50 pm

1. Developed too quickly
2. I'll wait and see
=4. Not enough evidence

Would be interested to read that - can I have a link?

Of course

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... tember2021

At the risk of showing myself up: isn't the data you refer to across all ethnicities / groups, so that you can't break down the reasons for vaccine hesitancy and see if there's a difference between ethnicities?

I've seen a number of pieces of research indicating that trust was a major factor in vaccine hesitancy amongst ethnic minority groups -for example:

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n513

"The most common reasons for hesitancy are concerns about side effects and the long term effects on health, and lack of trust in vaccines, particularly among black respondents. Some have capitalised on these concerns to spread misinformation, adding to the historical mistrust of government and public health bodies that runs deep in some ethnic minority groups.

Trust is eroded by systemic racism and discrimination, previous unethical healthcare research in black populations, under-representation of minorities in health research and vaccine trials, and negative experiences within a culturally insensitive healthcare system."

All of those answers are effectively the same - a lack of trust. Which I get.

But anyway, shouldn’t we worry more about the 9m unvaccinated white people than the 1.8m unvaccinated non-white people?

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:28 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:29 pm

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:39 pm

Would be interested to read that - can I have a link?

Of course

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... tember2021

At the risk of showing myself up: isn't the data you refer to across all ethnicities / groups, so that you can't break down the reasons for vaccine hesitancy and see if there's a difference between ethnicities?

I've seen a number of pieces of research indicating that trust was a major factor in vaccine hesitancy amongst ethnic minority groups -for example:

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n513

"The most common reasons for hesitancy are concerns about side effects and the long term effects on health, and lack of trust in vaccines, particularly among black respondents. Some have capitalised on these concerns to spread misinformation, adding to the historical mistrust of government and public health bodies that runs deep in some ethnic minority groups.

Trust is eroded by systemic racism and discrimination, previous unethical healthcare research in black populations, under-representation of minorities in health research and vaccine trials, and negative experiences within a culturally insensitive healthcare system."

Correct, there isn't data thats broken down by ethnicity and that BMJ article appears to be citing all the reasons mentioned I.e. long term effects, trust in vaccines in general and mistrust in government.

I'd imagine there's a lot of overlap and looking at the figures most vaccine hesitant people probably cite a few different reasons to justify their refusal.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:52 am But anyway, shouldn’t we worry more about the 9m unvaccinated white people than the 1.8m unvaccinated non-white people?

Mortality rates have been higher amongst non white minorities. That vaccination rates are also lower is definitely cause for concern.

I don't think looking at unvaccinated people as a threat to yourself makes sense when this new variant gets so many breakthrough cases anyway. Have multiple friends who are triple jabbed who have now caught covid. Not one of them have gotten seriously ill. Trust the vaccines to do their job and keep you from getting very sick.