Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:26 pm Yanks wont let Ukraine join NATO anyway. They keep knocking them back under the guise of corruption while being chill about Albania being a member

It's a win win win for Vlad as creating a crisis he can exploit, destabilising neighbours and sabre rattling for popularity at home are all key tenants of his foreign policy.

These tenants Putin has are living rent free in the heads of Western leaders.

U.S. embassy personnel in Ukraine have been ordered to begin evacuating the country on Monday.

Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:04 pm U.S. embassy personnel in Ukraine have been ordered to begin evacuating the country on Monday.

Shitebags

If and when it happens it’ll be the biggest humanitarian disaster in Europe since the end of WW2. The Russians aren’t known for showing any mercy or accurate targeting of their objectives. They’ll just flatten everybody and everything that gets in their way. The human toll will be enormous.

Covid didn’t kill enough people so let’s start a war which will be WW3 and tens of millions if not hundreds of millions will die.

We are not starting a war.

Cyber attacks in Ukraine (as proceeded the Georgian occupation)

Faux diplomatic efforts

Russian diplomats evacuated from Kiev

Russian troops amassing in Belarus along the Ukraine border

It's gonna happen because for it not to would make Putin look weak and cowed by things like the Brits sending some arms to the front line. Question is how far they go and for how long. Anthing past the Dnieper river would be a catastrophe

Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:16 pm We are not starting a war.

I’ve loved reading your posts on this thread as they are very good and show a lot of knowledge on the subject matter. However, if he invades properly and after sleepy joe has now warned him not to send in little green men either the USA will look weak on the world stage unless they stand up to them. NATO will have to respond, China will look to support the Russians as both want to put the USA in their place and all the while tensions are ratcheting up. It ends in war unfortunately.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:42 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:16 pm We are not starting a war.

I’ve loved reading your posts on this thread as they are very good and show a lot of knowledge on the subject matter. However, if he invades properly and after sleepy joe has now warned him not to send in little green men either the USA will look weak on the world stage unless they stand up to them. NATO will have to respond, China will look to support the Russians as both want to put the USA in their place and all the while tensions are ratcheting up. It ends in war unfortunately.

NATO troops will not engage with Russian troops. Absolutely nobody is willing to engage in active contact with the Russians over Ukraine. If Russia further invades then Ukraine will be left to the wolves.

But we and many other allies are doing all we can to give the Ukrainians a fighting chance should the worst happen. And hopefully our efforts will help shift the balance and make Russia reluctant to pull the trigger.

The actual response will be non-millitary (extreme sanctions, seizure of Russian assets, cut from international banking system etc). But NATO members must be absolutely steadfast and united on this. And so far the bloody Germans are revealing themselves to be scabs.

WW3 only becomes a risk if Russia attacks a NATO member.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:23 pm Cyber attacks in Ukraine (as proceeded the Georgian occupation)

Faux diplomatic efforts

Russian diplomats evacuated from Kiev

Russian troops amassing in Belarus along the Ukraine border

It's gonna happen because for it not to would make Putin look weak and cowed by things like the Brits sending some arms to the front line. Question is how far they go and for how long. Anthing past the Dnieper river would be a catastrophe

Anything past the Dneiper and Poland and Lithuania will have little choice but to start mobilising. I still can't see Putin being stupid enough to engage them however.

But I just cannot see how the US and NATO can agree to Russia's demands, which makes me think that Putin never really expected them to.

If it happens I reckon the objective will be to smash the state back to a pre-industrial existence, not occupation. However, once these things get going they can get very unpredictable.

Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:06 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:23 pm Cyber attacks in Ukraine (as proceeded the Georgian occupation)

Faux diplomatic efforts

Russian diplomats evacuated from Kiev

Russian troops amassing in Belarus along the Ukraine border

It's gonna happen because for it not to would make Putin look weak and cowed by things like the Brits sending some arms to the front line. Question is how far they go and for how long. Anthing past the Dnieper river would be a catastrophe

Anything past the Dneiper and Poland and Lithuania will have little choice but to start mobilising. I still can't see Putin being stupid enough to engage them however.

But I just cannot see how the US and NATO can agree to Russia's demands, which makes me think that Putin never really expected them to.

If it happens I reckon the objective will be to smash the state back to a pre-industrial existence, not occupation. However, once these things get going they can get very unpredictable.

Is there no one willing to step up to the plate and repel the Red hoards?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:11 pm Is there no one willing to step up to the plate and repel the Red hoards?

Yes, the UK.

Translates I believe as ""In 2 days, Great Britain drove the 4th military plane with weapons. God save the Queen!""



Another grateful Ukrainian posted a photograph of Princess Anne sitting in front of a Royal Air Force jet and dozens of RAF officers. "Here are friends," they said. "God save the UK! Thanks to the Queen," wrote a third, adding a series of union jack emojis.

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:29 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:11 pm Is there no one willing to step up to the plate and repel the Red hoards?

Yes, the UK.

Translates I believe as ""In 2 days, Great Britain drove the 4th military plane with weapons. God save the Queen!""



Another grateful Ukrainian posted a photograph of Princess Anne sitting in front of a Royal Air Force jet and dozens of RAF officers. "Here are friends," they said. "God save the UK! Thanks to the Queen," wrote a third, adding a series of union jack emojis.

I hate it when people suck up to you. They're usually after something. In this case it looks like they fully respect ar Royals but secretly want to pump them.

Everything todays suggests things are turning up a notch. There's little to go by that would suggest the risk of war is diminishing.

Russia now saying it may send weapons to the occupied territories in Ukraine (this could pretext engineering).

US Embassy in Ukraine just now urging U.S. citizens in Ukraine to consider leaving while there’s still time.

Wendy Sherman, Deputy Secretary of State, has also stated that they now realistically expect Russian military action will begin anytime between now and middle of February.

That could still coincide with the end of the Beijing Olympics and when landing craft from the Baltic and Kola fleets are due to arrive in Crimea. I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like for ordinary Ukrainians right now.

Russia to hold live fire exercises off the Irish coast right on top of underwater cables that take most of the Internet traffic from Europe and North America and right below the main airway from the US and much of Europe.

Putin is now scheduled to have a phone call with Boris Johnson at 4.00pm today.

I'd like to think that most Tory MPs who backed his leadership bid in 2019 are now bitterly regretting their decision. I doubt it, but I'd like to think it.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:58 pm Putin is now scheduled to have a phone call with Boris Johnson at 4.00pm today.

I'd like to think that most Tory MPs who backed his leadership bid in 2019 are now bitterly regretting their decision. I doubt it, but I'd like to think it.

War at 5pm then ?

Perhaps BJ can offer him a discount on his next Tory-Party-donation-cum-tennis-match-auction and see if that averts war?

Putin & Xi Jinping meeting Friday after Olympic opening ceremony

BJ little phone call is of no consequence. Also the cheese lady and him going to the Ukraine is only for the UK media.

Well worth a listen, as is the whole series

Yeah he's a bit over the top at times, but gets excellent guests in.

One of the panelists expressed really well what I've assumed Putin is doing, which is pushing the the red line for sanctions further back. The west has been talking about punishing Russia for the treatment of Navalny and general anti democracy crackdown. Now the red line is invading Ukraine. The more Putin threatens his neighbours and hangs the possibility of invasion, the more license he has to do what he wants domestically.

Apparently there's very little domestic messaging and prep for the idea of a war in the Russian media, which you'd assume would be happening if there was actual intent.

Russia currently mocking Liz Truss for not knowing the difference between Baltic and Black Sea.

If it's her and Johnson trying to prevent war, we'd be better off buying a fallout shelter for the garden

I'm clinging to hope that the likes of Truss and Johnson are only involved in a superficial sense, and we have serious people behind the scenes doing the actual work.

Putin sending a very blunt message to Boris Johnson ahead of their telephone call by sending a number of ‘Bear’ bombers supported by three tankers and an AEW aircraft into the UK’s ‘area of interest’ in other words off the north coast of Scotland.

Not an uncommon occurrence but not in such numbers.

Forgive me for making what will be probably deemed a partisan UK political point

But it's times like this that make me thankful we are integral members of NATO.