Anti Vax / Anti Mask / Conspiracy Loons

[Stowaway]

Sorry admin but as long as there is nothing hateful or offensive then surely it should not matter? Isn't a forum meant to be for people's opinions and to debate them??

Anti vax conspiracy lies are harmful, thats why it matters.

A lot of the thoughts and opinions which were referred to as “conspiracy lies/theories” in early 2020 have turned out to be true. Will you allow people back in if they get banned for a “lie” which then turns out to be true or will you give a grace period of say 2-4 months between the “lie” being told and actually going ahead with the ban?

Just name one, then. Should be easy for you, you said there were “a lot of them”.

[idontkn0 M]

The vaccine is only controversial if you’re a f*cking idiot.

Not really. We have a grandad who passed away with a blood clot 2 weeks after his first one. Got a family friend who has been in and out of hospital with them and other issues since hers (confirmed by doctor to be due to the jab).

Even on the BBC today there is an article about a lady that passed from hers and had her death "misdiagnosed".

I think we all need to make great effort stay connected to one another through this time. I am sure we are all going to be, and have been wrong at different times about different things about this. The extremists at both end of this discourse are silly really.

I know people who have suffered from the jab, suffered from covid, and who can't face another lockdown. Bit of love and forgiveness is the order of the day. I understand it's hard though.

Have got right back into Orient past year or so and enjoy coming to the board to see what everyone's saying about it and recently decided to join in. Grateful to you all.

[BoniO]

I wasn’t aware we were talking solely about this forum, I haven’t been on here long enough to have that data only joined august last year (I think) I was referring to people and society in general friends family workplace etc etc.

My point stands though we’re all adults and I think we should be allowed discussion and opinions even if we do not agree it’s the only way to learn from your peers I love a discussion and I love listening to my peers opinions and thoughts.

None of us here know what’s true and what’s a lie when it comes to this matter so why not allow the conversation to flow?

But you can't have a discussion with someone who believes that the vaccine has microchips in it, or, simplistically, "doesn't work" just because it's not 100% effective. They don't want discussion, they're cheap "shock jocks" or they're just incredibly, incredibly stupid (always a possibility). They're the kind who won't wear masks because it violates their human rights - they'd rather risk everyone else around them rather than simply wear a mask. To call them idiots is flattery. Personally, I fully agree with the Mods removing these a-holes from this MB.

[Long slender neck]

We've got 300 pages of chat on coronavirus, nobody can say we aren't letting conversation flow.

Those who have been banned are people totally off their trolley and spouting dangerous nonsense.

[BoniO]

The vaccine is only controversial if you’re a f*cking idiot.

Not really. We have a grandad who passed away with a blood clot 2 weeks after his first one. Got a family friend who has been in and out of hospital with them and other issues since hers (confirmed by doctor to be due to the jab).

Even on the BBC today there is an article about a lady that passed from hers and had her death "misdiagnosed".

I think we all need to make great effort stay connected to one another through this time. I am sure we are all going to be, and have been wrong at different times about different things about this. The extremists at both end of this discourse are silly really.

I know people who have suffered from the jab, suffered from covid, and who can't face another lockdown. Bit of love and forgiveness is the order of the day. I understand it's hard though.

Have got right back into Orient past year or so and enjoy coming to the board to see what everyone's saying about it and recently decided to join in. Grateful to you all.

If the above is true, sorry for your loss. But, and it's a big BUT, overwhelmingly the vaccine has saved tens (maybe 100's) of thousands of lives. Any death is a terrible tragedy but the overall massive benefit from the vaccine is irrefutable and far, far outweighs the much smaller number of deaths attributed to the vaccine.

[Paddy]

Ok chaps that’s fair enough I agree. I am definitely of some sort of “sceptical opinion” on the whole C19 matter but not in the micro chip bill gates will eat your children way and I actually think they make more harm to people like me and our opinions as we get judged as the same by most people.

While I do think even those people should be allowed their opinions I am not going to sit here and fight for why they should be I’ll leave it to them to do so!

Enjoy your evening gentlemen and as always Up The O’s

[Petrov788]

I can understand people having either a anti-lockdown (economic harm, physical and mental health issues), and less so an anti-vax stance (because people should have freedom of choice over what they put in their bodies) - because even though I'm generally ok with lockdowns, only if it's needed, and I'm triple vaxxed and would encourage everyone else to do so - the one thing I can't understand at all, is the anti-mask thing. It's bonkers, you don't have to wear it all the time. You aren't being asked to wear a mask so that rich fat cats can laugh at you having a nappy on your face - people aren't trying to stop people smiling or talking to each other. There is no agenda there other than trying to prevent and slow transmission - not stop it altogether, because that is impossible, but to reduce transmission and increase people's confidence that we can actually go about our lives in some way, as long as we take precautions.

It's also one thing to say no I don't want to wear a mask, or no I won't have the vaccine because of reason x or y - but it's another thing to go around spreading dubious statistics and fake quotes, conspiracy theories and trying to convince other people to not wear a mask, or to not have the jab. Kinda my view on religion, do believe what you want, but don't shove it down other people's throats. If you are one of these people, then don't try to claim to be anti-lockdown, but lockdowns will be a direct consequence of your actions.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Exactly.

I

[JimbO]

I can understand people having either a anti-lockdown (economic harm, physical and mental health issues), and less so an anti-vax stance (because people should have freedom of choice over what they put in their bodies) - because even though I'm generally ok with lockdowns, only if it's needed, and I'm triple vaxxed and would encourage everyone else to do so - the one thing I can't understand at all, is the anti-mask thing. It's bonkers, you don't have to wear it all the time. You aren't being asked to wear a mask so that rich fat cats can laugh at you having a nappy on your face - people aren't trying to stop people smiling or talking to each other. There is no agenda there other than trying to prevent and slow transmission - not stop it altogether, because that is impossible, but to reduce transmission and increase people's confidence that we can actually go about our lives in some way, as long as we take precautions.

It's also one thing to say no I don't want to wear a mask, or no I won't have the vaccine because of reason x or y - but it's another thing to go around spreading dubious statistics and fake quotes, conspiracy theories and trying to convince other people to not wear a mask, or to not have the jab. Kinda my view on religion, do believe what you want, but don't shove it down other people's throats. If you are one of these people, then don't try to claim to be anti-lockdown, but lockdowns will be a direct consequence of your actions.

Going round speaking common sense like that you won't last long on here

[Max B Gold]

I can understand people having either a anti-lockdown (economic harm, physical and mental health issues), and less so an anti-vax stance (because people should have freedom of choice over what they put in their bodies) - because even though I'm generally ok with lockdowns, only if it's needed, and I'm triple vaxxed and would encourage everyone else to do so - the one thing I can't understand at all, is the anti-mask thing. It's bonkers, you don't have to wear it all the time. You aren't being asked to wear a mask so that rich fat cats can laugh at you having a nappy on your face - people aren't trying to stop people smiling or talking to each other. There is no agenda there other than trying to prevent and slow transmission - not stop it altogether, because that is impossible, but to reduce transmission and increase people's confidence that we can actually go about our lives in some way, as long as we take precautions.

It's also one thing to say no I don't want to wear a mask, or no I won't have the vaccine because of reason x or y - but it's another thing to go around spreading dubious statistics and fake quotes, conspiracy theories and trying to convince other people to not wear a mask, or to not have the jab. Kinda my view on religion, do believe what you want, but don't shove it down other people's throats. If you are one of these people, then don't try to claim to be anti-lockdown, but lockdowns will be a direct consequence of your actions.

I have checked this post for errors but there are none. Carry on.

[Smendrick Feaselberg]

Current theme I'm seeing on social media is any death of a young person or the recent cases of footballers/fans in the stands collapsing being attributed to definitely due to the vaccine. Guessing this is going to spread further.

[BoniO]

Seen the same trend SF. Today, coverage of the death of Siobhan Cattigan has trolls making a probable connection to the vaccination as the cause of death. Funny how the same people who question whether Covid death numbers are exaggerated by the 28 day rule, are then only too happy to attribute cause of random deaths to the vaccination without providing any evidence.

[tuffers#1]

I have recently been diagnosed with COPD
After i got both my vaccinations this year .
I am having tests for sleep apnea & will
At some point possibly have
Investigations into
Lung cancer .

I have my booster booked for the 7th .

Just in caae i die , id like it to be known
I woke up 1 day in septmenber 2020
with an Unbelievable pain in my right lung
The next day the same with the left lung .
This was before i had both vaccines & it
Followed nearly 40 years of smoking .

Wouldnt want Thorge or anyone claiming it
Was the vaccines that finished me off .

Good luck to everyone if it does turn out
To be a variant that beats current vaccines .

Im 55 & have outlived my Dad by 5 months &
2 of his brothers by a year & 3 years respectively .

Most of my mums side made it to there 80s & 90s
So im not sure if i should be panicking or blasae .

[BoniO]

How dare you hog NHS resources !!

But in reality, I wish you good luck. We can't spare any O's fans at the moment.

[George M]

I have recently been diagnosed with COPD
After i got both my vaccinations this year .
I am having tests for sleep apnea & will
At some point possibly have
Investigations into
Lung cancer .

I have my booster booked for the 7th .

Just in caae i die , id like it to be known
I woke up 1 day in septmenber 2020
with an Unbelievable pain in my right lung
The next day the same with the left lung .
This was before i had both vaccines & it
Followed nearly 40 years of smoking .

Wouldnt want Thorge or anyone claiming it
Was the vaccines that finished me off .

Good luck to everyone if it does turn out
To be a variant that beats current vaccines .

Im 55 & have outlived my Dad by 5 months &
2 of his brothers by a year & 3 years respectively .

Most of my mums side made it to there 80s & 90s
So im not sure if i should be panicking or blasae .

Tuffers , i would like to be put down by your boarding skills for at least another 20 years. You will be fine

[tuffers#1]

I have recently been diagnosed with COPD
After i got both my vaccinations this year .
I am having tests for sleep apnea & will
At some point possibly have
Investigations into
Lung cancer .

I have my booster booked for the 7th .

Just in caae i die , id like it to be known
I woke up 1 day in septmenber 2020
with an Unbelievable pain in my right lung
The next day the same with the left lung .
This was before i had both vaccines & it
Followed nearly 40 years of smoking .

Wouldnt want Thorge or anyone claiming it
Was the vaccines that finished me off .

Good luck to everyone if it does turn out
To be a variant that beats current vaccines .

Im 55 & have outlived my Dad by 5 months &
2 of his brothers by a year & 3 years respectively .

Most of my mums side made it to there 80s & 90s
So im not sure if i should be panicking or blasae .

Tuffers , i would like to be put down by your boarding skills for at least another 20 years. You will be fine

One hopes so George but the 1 thing none of us know is when
We will be shuffled off from this mortal place .

So the thing to do is enjoy ones self .
If like the last 2 years it is because of restrictions on our freedoms
Then we must make sure we do so in whichever form we can .

Mine has been here . Many have learned to dislike me or like me ,
Im not overly concerned , but i have thoroughly enjoyed myself .
Chuckling away at what i wrote.or others have .

So i bid that all of us do so for many more years of the same .

As well as at games too !

[tuffers#1]

How dare you hog NHS resources !!

But in reality, I wish you good luck. We can't spare any O's fans at the moment.

This is the stuff that makes me chortle the most .
Well done Bones !!

[StillSpike]

Seen the same trend SF. Today, coverage of the death of Siobhan Cattigan has trolls making a probable connection to the vaccination as the cause of death. Funny how the same people who question whether Covid death numbers are exaggerated by the 28 day rule, are then only too happy to attribute cause of random deaths to the vaccination without providing any evidence.

I've already seen an "hilarious" meme, based on the scooby doo cartoon where they take the mask off the miscreant to reveal the true perpetrator. The mask is labelled "Omicron" and when it's revealed in panel 3, it turn out that rather than the janitor, it's "Adverse Vaccine Effects". My how I laughed.

[Paddy]

Like I mentioned last night when I express scepticism towards vaccination etc it’s not because I think Bill Gates will eat my children or make me sterile but it’s a general worry about the speed and lack of testing. I am simply worried that the price will be high to pay for a lot of people who might have unknown health issues.

Like myocarditis - there’s no denying that it can now be classed as a confirmed side effect of the vaccine regardless of what side of the fence you’re standing and just now seeing another spectator collapse in a stadium mid-match, makes me worried.

What is that now the 3rd spectator to collapse in a stand mid-match live on TV this season only in England? Add to that the many sportspeople collapsing with some dying over the last 12 months, would you not agree that it’s a very noticeable increase in such cases in this country and others?

These are my worries among others. It’s based on not knowing how my body works and what I might suffer from and as such making a judgment call when comparing the benefits for a vaccine for example. I am not scared of getting a chip on my person (we have one called debit card at all times anyway ).

[StillSpike]

Like I mentioned last night when I express scepticism towards vaccination etc it’s not because I think Bill Gates will eat my children or make me sterile but it’s a general worry about the speed and lack of testing. I am simply worried that the price will be high to pay for a lot of people who might have unknown health issues.

Like myocarditis - there’s no denying that it can now be classed as a confirmed side effect of the vaccine regardless of what side of the fence you’re standing and just now seeing another spectator collapse in a stadium mid-match, makes me worried.

What is that now the 3rd spectator to collapse in a stand mid-match live on TV this season only in England? Add to that the many sportspeople collapsing with some dying over the last 12 months, would you not agree that it’s a very noticeable increase in such cases in this country and others?

These are my worries among others. It’s based on not knowing how my body works and what I might suffer from and as such making a judgment call when comparing the benefits for a vaccine for example. I am not scared of getting a chip on my person (we have one called debit card at all times anyway ).

But myocarditis is also a confirmed side effect of getting Coronavirus - the linked article quotes a study indicating that in adults getting Covid 19 increases the risk of myocarditis by 18 times.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo ... be-worried

It's an interesting read. The BHF seem to be in favour of the vaccines.

[Paddy]

Like I mentioned last night when I express scepticism towards vaccination etc it’s not because I think Bill Gates will eat my children or make me sterile but it’s a general worry about the speed and lack of testing. I am simply worried that the price will be high to pay for a lot of people who might have unknown health issues.

Like myocarditis - there’s no denying that it can now be classed as a confirmed side effect of the vaccine regardless of what side of the fence you’re standing and just now seeing another spectator collapse in a stadium mid-match, makes me worried.

What is that now the 3rd spectator to collapse in a stand mid-match live on TV this season only in England? Add to that the many sportspeople collapsing with some dying over the last 12 months, would you not agree that it’s a very noticeable increase in such cases in this country and others?

These are my worries among others. It’s based on not knowing how my body works and what I might suffer from and as such making a judgment call when comparing the benefits for a vaccine for example. I am not scared of getting a chip on my person (we have one called debit card at all times anyway ).

But myocarditis is also a confirmed side effect of getting Coronavirus - the linked article quotes a study indicating that in adults getting Covid 19 increases the risk of myocarditis by 18 times.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo ... be-worried

It's an interesting read. The BHF seem to be in favour of the vaccines.

Thanks Spike I have actually read that article and I agree it’s an interesting read. And there’s a case to be made that no one ever mentioned myocarditis as a side effect of Covid until early this year (when people started getting it as a result of the vaccine) but again it depends on how far down the rabbit hole one wants to go and how big your “tin foil hat” is

[ComeOnYouOs]

I still can't understand why people are rushing to get boosters, when it may be totally useless against this new variant.
The current vaccines were developed for the original variant, with each new variant since, the efficacy is reduced somewhat.
Now we have a variant of concern, that some scientists have said has a very different spike, and present vaccines may or may not be effective..... So why not wait, and see what's what.
People are rushing like lemmings to get what may turn out to be something useless, no one knows at the moment.
The manufacturers have said they can tweak the old vaccine to make it more effective against the new variant, so why not wait for that vaccine.
The world's gone mad

[StillSpike]

Maybe the boosters help against the existing strain that's hitting 40,000 new people every day?

[StillSpike]

Thanks Spike I have actually read that article and I agree it’s an interesting read. And there’s a case to be made that no one ever mentioned myocarditis as a side effect of Covid until early this year (when people started getting it as a result of the vaccine) but again it depends on how far down the rabbit hole one wants to go and how big your “tin foil hat” is

I suppose I'm guided by who is "making the case" - if it's someone like the British Heart Foundation, then I'm likely to take more notice of the case than if it's just Alan off of Youtube.

You're right that we don't know absolutely the long term possibilities of the vaccines - that's just logic, they've only been around a year - but we do know for a fact that they're cutting your risk of pegging it from Covid - or indeed being hospitalised with it. Speaking personally, I caught Covid about a month ago, and (I'm sure) thanks to the 2 doses of vaccine I'd been given, I got it really mild (despite some underlying conditions) and was fine in a few days with no apparent lasting effects.

[Paddy]

Thanks Spike I have actually read that article and I agree it’s an interesting read. And there’s a case to be made that no one ever mentioned myocarditis as a side effect of Covid until early this year (when people started getting it as a result of the vaccine) but again it depends on how far down the rabbit hole one wants to go and how big your “tin foil hat” is

I suppose I'm guided by who is "making the case" - if it's someone like the British Heart Foundation, then I'm likely to take more notice of the case than if it's just Alan off of Youtube.

You're right that we don't know absolutely the long term possibilities of the vaccines - that's just logic, they've only been around a year - but we do know for a fact that they're cutting your risk of pegging it from Covid - or indeed being hospitalised with it. Speaking personally, I caught Covid about a month ago, and (I'm sure) thanks to the 2 doses of vaccine I'd been given, I got it really mild (despite some underlying conditions) and was fine in a few days with no apparent lasting effects.

I agree with you and again it does come down to trust in government and politics etc, but just because you don’t trust “the power” doesn’t mean you’re trusting some Numpty off YouTube. There’s many high profile people with the right credentials who have and are questioning the whole thing.

I’m glad you are feeling better now. I got a bout in early summer (even though i tested negative) but I’ve never been Ill like that in my life it was absolutely horrific but lucky as no apparent lasting effects.

Edit: another fan just collapsed at Southampton. That’s two cardiac arrests, live on TV, just today.