Independent Leyton Orient Forum

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:59 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:52 am

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 11:42 pm
They should be as angry at Hamas for using residential areas to attack Israel and then hide.

Hamas was founded in 1987; Israel began expelling Palestinians by force in 1948.

I’m talking about what’s happening right now.

Jews have been expelled by force from everywhere they’ve lived since the middle ages.

Sorry for posting an inconvenient fact that cuts across the received wisdom that somehow Hamas are the cause of the conflict.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:00 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:53 am

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:50 am
Why was a warning given?...I asked someone to look up historical facts. Ridiculous

Tell me what these ‘facts’ are.

You can start by telling me why 4,000 Jews deserved to be slaughtered in one day in Granada because one man plotted to be installed as King.

Im not telling you anything.......as soon as you tell a few home truths, you are branded anti-semitic.Look up for yourself why Jews were expelled from Europe in the middle ages..its all online if you care to look it up

You’re branded as anti-semitic because you alluded to the Jews doing something to deserve murder and expulsion since the middle ages. You won’t give one example of why ‘they deserved it’

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:01 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:59 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:52 am

Hamas was founded in 1987; Israel began expelling Palestinians by force in 1948.

I’m talking about what’s happening right now.

Jews have been expelled by force from everywhere they’ve lived since the middle ages.

Sorry for posting an inconvenient fact that cuts across the received wisdom that somehow Hamas are the cause of the conflict.

Did I say that? No. I said they were using residential areas to launch attacks. Maybe actually read what I wrote and what I was replying to before you start with your ‘facts’ that have no relation to anything I said.

Hamas didn’t appear out of thin air. In the same way the IRA split into things like the provisional IRA and the real IRA.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:07 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:01 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:59 am
I’m talking about what’s happening right now.

Jews have been expelled by force from everywhere they’ve lived since the middle ages.

Sorry for posting an inconvenient fact that cuts across the received wisdom that somehow Hamas are the cause of the conflict.

Did I say that? No. I said they were using residential areas to launch attacks. Maybe actually read what I wrote and what I was replying to before you start with your ‘facts’ that have no relation to anything I said.

Hamas didn’t appear out of thin air. In the same way the IRA split into things like the provisional IRA and the real IRA.

But we are agreed that Hamas and any predecessor organisation were not the cause of the current conflict. Yes?

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:03 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:00 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:53 am
Tell me what these ‘facts’ are.

You can start by telling me why 4,000 Jews deserved to be slaughtered in one day in Granada because one man plotted to be installed as King.

Im not telling you anything.......as soon as you tell a few home truths, you are branded anti-semitic.Look up for yourself why Jews were expelled from Europe in the middle ages..its all online if you care to look it up

You’re branded as anti-semitic because you alluded to the Jews doing something to deserve murder and expulsion since the middle ages. You won’t give one example of why ‘they deserved it’

I realise the atmosphere is febrile but he did not actually say what you impute to him.

And no I'm not agreeing with anything he posts because his partisanship often tips over into anti semitism.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:10 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:07 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:01 pm

Sorry for posting an inconvenient fact that cuts across the received wisdom that somehow Hamas are the cause of the conflict.

Did I say that? No. I said they were using residential areas to launch attacks. Maybe actually read what I wrote and what I was replying to before you start with your ‘facts’ that have no relation to anything I said.

Hamas didn’t appear out of thin air. In the same way the IRA split into things like the provisional IRA and the real IRA.

But we are agreed that Hamas and any predecessor organisation were not the cause of the current conflict. Yes?

The one that’s going on right now, no. They have certainly fuelled it and put innocent Palestinian people at risk by where they are attacking Israel from though.

Did they not start it by firing rockets?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:15 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:03 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:00 pm
Im not telling you anything.......as soon as you tell a few home truths, you are branded anti-semitic.Look up for yourself why Jews were expelled from Europe in the middle ages..its all online if you care to look it up

You’re branded as anti-semitic because you alluded to the Jews doing something to deserve murder and expulsion since the middle ages. You won’t give one example of why ‘they deserved it’

I realise the atmosphere is febrile but he did not actually say what you impute to him.

And no I'm not agreeing with anything he posts because his partisanship often tips over into anti semitism.

That’s the problem, he alluded to it and won’t have the conviction to back his words up because he knows what he meant.

Implied racism is still racism.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:20 pm Did they not start it by firing rockets?

Weren't the rockets launched in retaliation for the widespread and coordinated violence perpetrated by the Israeli security forces in and around the Al Asqa mosque?

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:20 pm Did they not start it by firing rockets?

It was in response to the military storming the Mosque, which was in response to Palestinians throwing rocks from the Mosque and protesting, which was in response to 4 Arab families not paying rent and being evicted etc etc.

It’s mental how it’s gone from throwing rocks to Jewish and Palestinian children dying from rocket strikes and air strikes in less than a week

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:20 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:15 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:03 pm
You’re branded as anti-semitic because you alluded to the Jews doing something to deserve murder and expulsion since the middle ages. You won’t give one example of why ‘they deserved it’

I realise the atmosphere is febrile but he did not actually say what you impute to him.

And no I'm not agreeing with anything he posts because his partisanship often tips over into anti semitism.

That’s the problem, he alluded to it and won’t have the conviction to back his words up because he knows what he meant.

What you referred to was a pogrom in Al Andalus where the Jewish community were massacred by angry Muslims who were a bit upset that their leader had been conspiring with the leaders of Almeria to betray Al Andalus.

It was a religious factional dispute in an era where by and large the two communities lived side by side and were protected because the Koran states that followers of Abrahamic religions should be respected.

It's an period of history that I have had cause to research recently especially in relation to the interaction of the Muslim, Jewish and Christians in Al Andalus. It's very interesting.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:23 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:20 pm Did they not start it by firing rockets?

It was in response to the military storming the Mosque, which was in response to Palestinians throwing rocks from the Mosque and protesting, which was in response to 4 Arab families not paying rent and being evicted etc etc.

It’s mental how it’s gone from throwing rocks to Jewish and Palestinian children dying from rocket strikes and air strikes in less than a week

Not really when you have a lunatic like Netanyahu at the helm.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:30 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:20 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:15 pm

I realise the atmosphere is febrile but he did not actually say what you impute to him.

And no I'm not agreeing with anything he posts because his partisanship often tips over into anti semitism.

That’s the problem, he alluded to it and won’t have the conviction to back his words up because he knows what he meant.

What you referred to was a pogrom in Al Andalus where the Jewish community were massacred by angry Muslims who were a bit upset that their leader had been conspiring with the leaders of Almeria to betray Al Andalus.

It was a religious factional dispute in an era where by and large the two communities lived side by side and were protected because the Koran states that followers of Abrahamic religions should be respected.

It's an period of history that I have had cause to research recently especially in relation to the interaction of the Muslim, Jewish and Christians in Al Andalus. It's very interesting.

Yeah, and that’s why I asked him why 4,000 Jews deserved to die because one man conspired.

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:31 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:23 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:20 pm Did they not start it by firing rockets?

It was in response to the military storming the Mosque, which was in response to Palestinians throwing rocks from the Mosque and protesting, which was in response to 4 Arab families not paying rent and being evicted etc etc.

It’s mental how it’s gone from throwing rocks to Jewish and Palestinian children dying from rocket strikes and air strikes in less than a week

Not really when you have a lunatic like Netanyahu at the helm.

I said it’s mental, not surprising

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:23 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:20 pm Did they not start it by firing rockets?

It was in response to the military storming the Mosque, which was in response to Palestinians throwing rocks from the Mosque and protesting, which was in response to 4 Arab families not paying rent and being evicted etc etc.

It’s mental how it’s gone from throwing rocks to Jewish and Palestinian children dying from rocket strikes and air strikes in less than a week

That's the things with these historic conflicts and grievances. Both sides are able to always go back a bit further in time and point out something that the other did that still makes them feel sad. It achieves nothing. Not that there is ever going to be an easy solution to any of this of course, especially with the Iranian regime so clearly stirring the sh*t in the background.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:33 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:30 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:20 pm
That’s the problem, he alluded to it and won’t have the conviction to back his words up because he knows what he meant.

What you referred to was a pogrom in Al Andalus where the Jewish community were massacred by angry Muslims who were a bit upset that their leader had been conspiring with the leaders of Almeria to betray Al Andalus.

It was a religious factional dispute in an era where by and large the two communities lived side by side and were protected because the Koran states that followers of Abrahamic religions should be respected.

It's an period of history that I have had cause to research recently especially in relation to the interaction of the Muslim, Jewish and Christians in Al Andalus. It's very interesting.

Yeah, and that’s why I asked him why 4,000 Jews deserved to die because one man conspired.

They didn't deserve to die and he didn't say that.

You brought it up without offering any context or background facts (to the extent that there are verifiable "facts" from an event which occurred 1,000 years ago) and then attempted to use it to imply he was being anti semitic. It's not a helpful approach.


But in the context of inter communal violence stemming from a betrayal by the leader of one of the communities it's not surprising that violence followed. Again, just to be clear, I'm not justifying it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This. <a href="https://t.co/LY1Sj5dZp1">pic.twitter.co ... </p>&mdash; SueHsy #BDS (@Thehopper7) <a href=" 12, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:59 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:23 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:20 pm Did they not start it by firing rockets?

It was in response to the military storming the Mosque, which was in response to Palestinians throwing rocks from the Mosque and protesting, which was in response to 4 Arab families not paying rent and being evicted etc etc.

It’s mental how it’s gone from throwing rocks to Jewish and Palestinian children dying from rocket strikes and air strikes in less than a week

That's the things with these historic conflicts and grievances. Both sides are able to always go back a bit further in time and point out something that the other did that still makes them feel sad. It achieves nothing. Not that there is ever going to be an easy solution to any of this of course, especially with the Iranian regime so clearly stirring the sh*t in the background.

Looking at the roots of historical conflicts does achieve something. In the context of a reconciliation process both sides need to understand and accept the concerns they have in order to reach agreement on how to move forward toward building a society where both can coexist peacefully. So stop talking rubbish. I've got enough on my hands in this thread dealing with Comeonyouarabs and Biggsy Morone

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:32 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:33 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:30 pm

What you referred to was a pogrom in Al Andalus where the Jewish community were massacred by angry Muslims who were a bit upset that their leader had been conspiring with the leaders of Almeria to betray Al Andalus.

It was a religious factional dispute in an era where by and large the two communities lived side by side and were protected because the Koran states that followers of Abrahamic religions should be respected.

It's an period of history that I have had cause to research recently especially in relation to the interaction of the Muslim, Jewish and Christians in Al Andalus. It's very interesting.

Yeah, and that’s why I asked him why 4,000 Jews deserved to die because one man conspired.

They didn't deserve to die and he didn't say that.

You brought it up without offering any context or background facts (to the extent that there are verifiable "facts" from an event which occurred 1,000 years ago) and then attempted to use it to imply he was being anti semitic. It's not a helpful approach.


But in the context of inter communal violence stemming from a betrayal by the leader of one of the communities it's not surprising that violence followed. Again, just to be clear, I'm not justifying it.

I firstly said “Jews have been expelled by force from everywhere they’ve lived since the middle ages.” to which he replied “ ...and have you ever wondered why Jews have been expelled from everywhere, since the middle ages?”.

I’d like to hear your thoughts on what else he could have possibly meant by that.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:42 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:32 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:33 pm
Yeah, and that’s why I asked him why 4,000 Jews deserved to die because one man conspired.

They didn't deserve to die and he didn't say that.

You brought it up without offering any context or background facts (to the extent that there are verifiable "facts" from an event which occurred 1,000 years ago) and then attempted to use it to imply he was being anti semitic. It's not a helpful approach.


But in the context of inter communal violence stemming from a betrayal by the leader of one of the communities it's not surprising that violence followed. Again, just to be clear, I'm not justifying it.

I firstly said “Jews have been expelled by force from everywhere they’ve lived since the middle ages.” to which he replied “ ...and have you ever wondered why Jews have been expelled from everywhere, since the middle ages?”.

I’d like to hear your thoughts on what else he could have possibly meant by that.

I would prefer it if he answered the question honestly.

So Comeonyouarabs please explain what was behind your question.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:39 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:59 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:23 pm
It was in response to the military storming the Mosque, which was in response to Palestinians throwing rocks from the Mosque and protesting, which was in response to 4 Arab families not paying rent and being evicted etc etc.

It’s mental how it’s gone from throwing rocks to Jewish and Palestinian children dying from rocket strikes and air strikes in less than a week

That's the things with these historic conflicts and grievances. Both sides are able to always go back a bit further in time and point out something that the other did that still makes them feel sad. It achieves nothing. Not that there is ever going to be an easy solution to any of this of course, especially with the Iranian regime so clearly stirring the sh*t in the background.

Looking at the roots of historical conflicts does achieve something. In the context of a reconciliation process both sides need to understand and accept the concerns they have in order to reach agreement on how to move forward toward building a society where both can coexist peacefully. So stop talking rubbish. I've got enough on my hands in this thread dealing with Comeonyouarabs and Biggsy Morone

You agree looking at historical conflicts does achieve something, therefore you have to go back further to see how the Jews have been treated for 1000+ years and then you’ll see why it’s important to them to have ‘their land’. You can then move forward with creating a peaceful solution. Unfortunately, with people like Netanyahu and Hamas in charge, there won’t be a solution.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:46 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:42 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:32 pm

They didn't deserve to die and he didn't say that.

You brought it up without offering any context or background facts (to the extent that there are verifiable "facts" from an event which occurred 1,000 years ago) and then attempted to use it to imply he was being anti semitic. It's not a helpful approach.


But in the context of inter communal violence stemming from a betrayal by the leader of one of the communities it's not surprising that violence followed. Again, just to be clear, I'm not justifying it.

I firstly said “Jews have been expelled by force from everywhere they’ve lived since the middle ages.” to which he replied “ ...and have you ever wondered why Jews have been expelled from everywhere, since the middle ages?”.

I’d like to hear your thoughts on what else he could have possibly meant by that.

I would prefer it if he answered the question honestly.

So Comeonyouarabs please explain what was behind your question.

So would I. Saying something like that and following it up with ‘you go and look on google’ then running away, points to him being anti-semitic. If he’d have given me some examples of why Jews were expelled as a starting point, this wouldn’t be an issue.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:46 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:42 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:32 pm

They didn't deserve to die and he didn't say that.

You brought it up without offering any context or background facts (to the extent that there are verifiable "facts" from an event which occurred 1,000 years ago) and then attempted to use it to imply he was being anti semitic. It's not a helpful approach.


But in the context of inter communal violence stemming from a betrayal by the leader of one of the communities it's not surprising that violence followed. Again, just to be clear, I'm not justifying it.

I firstly said “Jews have been expelled by force from everywhere they’ve lived since the middle ages.” to which he replied “ ...and have you ever wondered why Jews have been expelled from everywhere, since the middle ages?”.

I’d like to hear your thoughts on what else he could have possibly meant by that.

I would prefer it if he answered the question honestly.

So Comeonyouarabs please explain what was behind your question.

Ok......The original statement that Jews have been thrown out of everywhere, suggested that the countries throwing Jews out, had no reason to throw them out, and I suggested that maybe they did have a reason to throw them out, and it wasnt because they were Jews.
I suggested that Google may have the answer, and to be historically accurate, maybe you should research why they were thrown out, before putting this misleading statement on this board.
To say perhaps a reason why they had been thrown out, even though it is factual, is nowdays considered anti-semitic, and you have to be careful how you phrase things, even historically factual things, so i left it to bigsy, to do his own research, because anything i said would immediately be deemed anti-semitic

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:31 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:23 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:20 pm Did they not start it by firing rockets?

It was in response to the military storming the Mosque, which was in response to Palestinians throwing rocks from the Mosque and protesting, which was in response to 4 Arab families not paying rent and being evicted etc etc.

It’s mental how it’s gone from throwing rocks to Jewish and Palestinian children dying from rocket strikes and air strikes in less than a week

Not really when you have a lunatic like Netanyahu at the helm.

The Israeli public's reaction to terrorist bus bombings:
"In February and March 1996, it (i.e. Hamas) carried out several suicide bus bombings, killing nearly 60 Israelis, in retaliation for the assassination in December 1995 of Hamas bomb maker Yahya Ayyash.

The bombings were widely blamed for turning Israelis off the peace process and bringing Benjamin Netanyahu - a staunch opponent of the Oslo accords - to power."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13331522