Independent Leyton Orient Forum

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 12:42 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 12:16 pm I think your right sid, I don’t think the public want a hard left party nor a hard right party either and I feel that the next election will be a war for the centre ground. Who holds that will win in my opinion.

This is the worst analysis ever. The centre ground (right of centre, anyway) days are over. People are further left or right than they have ever been.

LittleMate wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:45 pm

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 12:42 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 12:16 pm I think your right sid, I don’t think the public want a hard left party nor a hard right party either and I feel that the next election will be a war for the centre ground. Who holds that will win in my opinion.

This is the worst analysis ever. The centre ground (right of centre, anyway) days are over. People are further left or right than they have ever been.

CoSYG, that's the sort of 1970's thinking that saw labour unelected for a generation. You cannot win an election unless a significant part of the centre ground is secured. You may be right in that the parties are farther left and right than they have ever been - but it does not apply to the people who tend to prefer the safe ground of the centre in the longer term.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 2:50 am

LittleMate wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:45 pm

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 12:42 pm



This is the worst analysis ever. The centre ground (right of centre, anyway) days are over. People are further left or right than they have ever been.

CoSYG, that's the sort of 1970's thinking that saw labour unelected for a generation. You cannot win an election unless a significant part of the centre ground is secured. You may be right in that the parties are farther left and right than they have ever been - but it does not apply to the people who tend to prefer the safe ground of the centre in the longer term.

I don’t know if the parties are further apart or whether the extremist factions of left or right are just more vocal right now. But one thing is certain and that is the party that wins a GE has to appeal to the centre ground, whether that be left or right of centre. Blair and new Labour understood this and were successful.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:47 pm Yes, Heseltine is still a member of the Lords. I get that.

But what is Campbell? Just a rent a gob doing the rounds on tv putting the boot into the Labour Party. He’s a mere member of the party, no more, no less. If I boasted about voting for another party at an election, I’d expect to be kicked out of the party. Why is he any different?

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 5:24 am like a drunk smashing furniture at a party, then demanding to know where the mess had come from


https://jacobinmag.com/2019/05/jeremy-c ... -elections

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 6:42 am

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:47 pm Yes, Heseltine is still a member of the Lords. I get that.

But what is Campbell? Just a rent a gob doing the rounds on tv putting the boot into the Labour Party. He’s a mere member of the party, no more, no less. If I boasted about voting for another party at an election, I’d expect to be kicked out of the party. Why is he any different?

He shouldn't be treated any different. Therefore I'm sure we'll soon see all the other members who have been boasting publicly about voting Green or Lib Dem (before polling closed) expelled too. Right?

f*** Campbell, but Labour sure do have this incredible knack for falling into every trap that is set for them.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 8:55 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 6:42 am

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:47 pm Yes, Heseltine is still a member of the Lords. I get that.

But what is Campbell? Just a rent a gob doing the rounds on tv putting the boot into the Labour Party. He’s a mere member of the party, no more, no less. If I boasted about voting for another party at an election, I’d expect to be kicked out of the party. Why is he any different?

He shouldn't be treated any different. Therefore I'm sure we'll soon see all the other members who have been boasting publicly about voting Green or Lib Dem (before polling closed) expelled too. Right?

f*** Campbell, but Labour sure do have this incredible knack for falling into every trap that is set for them.

I imagine they’ll get round to them in due course.

I don’t see any way out of this trap or any of the other traps laid before them as part of operation chaos. Not saying Jezza is the shrewdest when it comes to these political games, of course, but I’m beginning to suspect he doesn’t give a sh*t anymore. And I don’t blame him.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 2:50 am

LittleMate wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:45 pm

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 12:42 pm



This is the worst analysis ever. The centre ground (right of centre, anyway) days are over. People are further left or right than they have ever been.

CoSYG, that's the sort of 1970's thinking that saw labour unelected for a generation. You cannot win an election unless a significant part of the centre ground is secured. You may be right in that the parties are farther left and right than they have ever been - but it does not apply to the people who tend to prefer the safe ground of the centre in the longer term.

I don’t know if the parties are further apart or whether the extremist factions of left or right are just more vocal right now. But one thing is certain and that is the party that wins a GE has to appeal to the centre ground, whether that be left or right of centre. Blair and new Labour understood this and were successful.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 1:33 pm Nationalising utilities.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 3:02 pm So if the majority of the public wanted to bring back hanging, and the Brexit Party put it in their manifesto, that wouldnt be extreme?

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 9:52 am

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 8:55 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 6:42 am

He shouldn't be treated any different. Therefore I'm sure we'll soon see all the other members who have been boasting publicly about voting Green or Lib Dem (before polling closed) expelled too. Right?

f*** Campbell, but Labour sure do have this incredible knack for falling into every trap that is set for them.

I imagine they’ll get round to them in due course.

I don’t see any way out of this trap or any of the other traps laid before them as part of operation chaos. Not saying Jezza is the shrewdest when it comes to these political games, of course, but I’m beginning to suspect he doesn’t give a sh*t anymore. And I don’t blame him.

“..in due course…” You see, this is a problem. Throwing about the rule book in such situations never works out well, and will usually backfire, especially as inconsistencies and double-standards will always be apparent. Campbell would have been absolutely delighted when he got that email.

And Corbyn really does need to still be bothered by all of this. If he doesn’t then he is displaying a lack of resilience that will mark him as unfit for the job in the minds of the undecided voters whose opinions will make a difference.

Forget the idiots who completely fail to see through this Operation Chaos. They don’t matter, as they were never going to vote for Labour anyway (regardless of what they may say). But there will be a number of key voters in swing constituencies who may yet be convinced to vote for Labour. They will be smart enough to see a political and media hatchet job when they see one, and will be looking at the Tories and thinking “I’d rather not.”

But when they see such ineptitude, poor judgement and a lack of shrewdness, they will think that, regardless of his intentions, he will simply not be competent enough to deliver should he be given the opportunity. There could well be a GE this year, so their opinions really should matter to anyone who would like to see a Corbyn-led Labour government.

The Tories know they are in an absolute state, so their strategy (aided and abetted by their useful idiots in Labour) is to divide the Labour membership (anti-Semite-gate) and unnerve undecided swing voters. Whenever the odds of a GE increase we see an increase in activity for Operation Chaos. Corbyn’s team needs to act and nullify these tactics, whilst punching back hard with their own. Islamophobia-gate is potentially a worse crisis for the Tories than what Labour currently face, as they have been busy trying to win over Muslim voters in previously safe Labour constituencies to make up for the decline in their traditional core voter base.

It's time to fight hard, smart and dirty. And if Corbyn isn’t capable then, quite frankly, Labour will deserve what they get.

Having said all of that, I still think Corbyn may have peaked in the last GE anyway.

admin wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 2:31 pm Timing not great on this one from Labour - although Campbell knew exactly what he was doing when revealing this information.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 4:53 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 9:52 am

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 8:55 am

I imagine they’ll get round to them in due course.

I don’t see any way out of this trap or any of the other traps laid before them as part of operation chaos. Not saying Jezza is the shrewdest when it comes to these political games, of course, but I’m beginning to suspect he doesn’t give a sh*t anymore. And I don’t blame him.

“..in due course…” You see, this is a problem. Throwing about the rule book in such situations never works out well, and will usually backfire, especially as inconsistencies and double-standards will always be apparent. Campbell would have been absolutely delighted when he got that email.

And Corbyn really does need to still be bothered by all of this. If he doesn’t then he is displaying a lack of resilience that will mark him as unfit for the job in the minds of the undecided voters whose opinions will make a difference.

Forget the idiots who completely fail to see through this Operation Chaos. They don’t matter, as they were never going to vote for Labour anyway (regardless of what they may say). But there will be a number of key voters in swing constituencies who may yet be convinced to vote for Labour. They will be smart enough to see a political and media hatchet job when they see one, and will be looking at the Tories and thinking “I’d rather not.”

But when they see such ineptitude, poor judgement and a lack of shrewdness, they will think that, regardless of his intentions, he will simply not be competent enough to deliver should he be given the opportunity. There could well be a GE this year, so their opinions really should matter to anyone who would like to see a Corbyn-led Labour government.

The Tories know they are in an absolute state, so their strategy (aided and abetted by their useful idiots in Labour) is to divide the Labour membership (anti-Semite-gate) and unnerve undecided swing voters. Whenever the odds of a GE increase we see an increase in activity for Operation Chaos. Corbyn’s team needs to act and nullify these tactics, whilst punching back hard with their own. Islamophobia-gate is potentially a worse crisis for the Tories than what Labour currently face, as they have been busy trying to win over Muslim voters in previously safe Labour constituencies to make up for the decline in their traditional core voter base.

It's time to fight hard, smart and dirty. And if Corbyn isn’t capable then, quite frankly, Labour will deserve what they get.

Having said all of that, I still think Corbyn may have peaked in the last GE anyway.

Whatever.

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 7:16 pm

admin wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 2:31 pm Timing not great on this one from Labour - although Campbell knew exactly what he was doing when revealing this information.

If I was a season ticket holder at a club who were utter sh*t and I decided to go to another clubs matches as I couldn't stand watching them lose every week, would I be thrown out of the supporters club or my season ticket cancelled

admin wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 7:48 pm

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 7:16 pm

admin wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 2:31 pm Timing not great on this one from Labour - although Campbell knew exactly what he was doing when revealing this information.

If I was a season ticket holder at a club who were utter sh*t and I decided to go to another clubs matches as I couldn't stand watching them lose every week, would I be thrown out of the supporters club or my season ticket cancelled

You do realise that your analogy bears no relationship to what’s happened?

Bar that, great post.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 4:53 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 9:52 am

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 8:55 am

I imagine they’ll get round to them in due course.

I don’t see any way out of this trap or any of the other traps laid before them as part of operation chaos. Not saying Jezza is the shrewdest when it comes to these political games, of course, but I’m beginning to suspect he doesn’t give a sh*t anymore. And I don’t blame him.

“..in due course…” You see, this is a problem. Throwing about the rule book in such situations never works out well, and will usually backfire, especially as inconsistencies and double-standards will always be apparent. Campbell would have been absolutely delighted when he got that email.

And Corbyn really does need to still be bothered by all of this. If he doesn’t then he is displaying a lack of resilience that will mark him as unfit for the job in the minds of the undecided voters whose opinions will make a difference.

Forget the idiots who completely fail to see through this Operation Chaos. They don’t matter, as they were never going to vote for Labour anyway (regardless of what they may say). But there will be a number of key voters in swing constituencies who may yet be convinced to vote for Labour. They will be smart enough to see a political and media hatchet job when they see one, and will be looking at the Tories and thinking “I’d rather not.”

But when they see such ineptitude, poor judgement and a lack of shrewdness, they will think that, regardless of his intentions, he will simply not be competent enough to deliver should he be given the opportunity. There could well be a GE this year, so their opinions really should matter to anyone who would like to see a Corbyn-led Labour government.

The Tories know they are in an absolute state, so their strategy (aided and abetted by their useful idiots in Labour) is to divide the Labour membership (anti-Semite-gate) and unnerve undecided swing voters. Whenever the odds of a GE increase we see an increase in activity for Operation Chaos. Corbyn’s team needs to act and nullify these tactics, whilst punching back hard with their own. Islamophobia-gate is potentially a worse crisis for the Tories than what Labour currently face, as they have been busy trying to win over Muslim voters in previously safe Labour constituencies to make up for the decline in their traditional core voter base.

It's time to fight hard, smart and dirty. And if Corbyn isn’t capable then, quite frankly, Labour will deserve what they get.

Having said all of that, I still think Corbyn may have peaked in the last GE anyway.

Whatever.

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 8:49 pm

admin wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 7:48 pm

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 7:16 pm

If I was a season ticket holder at a club who were utter sh*t and I decided to go to another clubs matches as I couldn't stand watching them lose every week, would I be thrown out of the supporters club or my season ticket cancelled

You do realise that your analogy bears no relationship to what’s happened?

Bar that, great post.

He's done nothing wrong just didn't like what they stood for on a particular subject, nothing in the rules says he has to agree with them on every subject

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 7:16 pm

admin wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 2:31 pm Timing not great on this one from Labour - although Campbell knew exactly what he was doing when revealing this information.

If I was a season ticket holder at a club who were utter sh*t and I decided to go to another clubs matches as I couldn't stand watching them lose every week, would I be thrown out of the supporters club or my season ticket cancelled