Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:27 am I’m listening now and he says “I would not personally play 4-3-3 if it were my choice” err it is your choice. He goes on to say we don’t have the players to play any other way, err your the head coach and we all know we have a transfer committee and you are a part of it, why aren’t the other boys and girls listening to you when you must therefore be suggesting we need a different type of player so we can play with two up top which is your preferred way of playing.

The man is talking bollocks, sorry.

Agree,
He should by now be instructing the “Transfer committee “ on the sort of player to bring in and what style of football he wants to play.
He clearly has not got a clue and is a follower not a leader.

o-no wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:24 am I think it's valid to challenge Ross's record without being called a HATER - that's the very definition of cancel culture.

Is anyone saying that the footy we've been served up recently has been an engrossing watch, because I don't think they are, and that's down to the way Ross has set the team up.

We can compare Ross's record against other rookie managers, and who knows, the penny may drop and Ross may go on to have a stellar career, but I just don't see it myself. Maybe Ross was no worse than Taylor at this stage, but does that tell us anything really? We have to look for signs of Ross's potential to be a great manager in what he lays before us. I'm not seeing it. I'm looking really hard for it, but sadly, I don't think it's there.

All i did was compare Graeme Taylors record in his first 2 seasons aginst Ross &
his records Over the first 2 seasons .

1972/73 season
Lincoln City pl 46 w 12 d 7 L4 f38 a27 w4 d9 L10 f26 a30 pts 48
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972%E2 ... all_League
1973/74 season
Lincoln City pl46 w10 d8 L5 f40 a30 w6 d4 L13 f23 a37 pts 44
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2 ... all_League

Ross Embleton first two Seasons as a Manager

2019/20 season
Leyton Orient pl 36 w 10 d12 L14 f47 a55 pts42

2020/21 Season
Leyton Orient pl 27 w11 d5 w11 f34 a29 pts 38


If Ross wins 6 more games out of 19 then he will have done better
Than STILLWRONGS latest example of how to do it any other way
IE Graeme Taylor .

Imnnust comparing there first 2 seasons
Taylor took over in december 72 so half a season
Ross took over after JE passes , Fletcher gate so can claim half a season.

Ross wins 6 more league games he does a better jon than Taylor did inbhis 2nd season
Yet Stillwrong claims Ross isnt a leader blah blah blah .

If it sounds like a dog barks like a dog its usually a dog

S.W is a HATER HATING !

No, just pointing out that we are going nowhere under this bloke.
The interview the other day was confirmation for me.

Still wrong wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:26 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:06 pm

Still wrong wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:16 am

I think it’s fair to say that having a good playing career doesn’t translate into being a good manager, totally different skill-set.
But to asked opposition managers what our strengths are is at best naive, but even worse is he publicly admitted it.
To say he is wet behind the ears is a understatement.
Also, I don’t accept we can’t play 4 4 2.
He believes we haven’t got the players to play this, then what has he been doing for 18 months?
He could have recruited the wide players who can play in this system.

If he had the 13/14 squad I doubt it he would play 442. The man has no idea.

I have had my doubts about this fella from day one.
We were told that he didn’t want the job for whatever reason.
If that was the case then he should not have been considered again.
For someone to turn down a golden opportunity like this would suggest they lack ambition and confidence, and no way should he have been reappointed a short while later.
I feel we should give him until the end of the season when I think we will finish 12th.
That is obvious progress but can anybody realistically see this bloke leading us to promotion?
I can’t.
I also don’t think it will be a good idea to let him stay in a lesser role as he will lack any credibility.

In my book it was so obvious he never had any credibility in the first place

Type high wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:03 am

Still wrong wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:26 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:06 pm
If he had the 13/14 squad I doubt it he would play 442. The man has no idea.

I have had my doubts about this fella from day one.
We were told that he didn’t want the job for whatever reason.
If that was the case then he should not have been considered again.
For someone to turn down a golden opportunity like this would suggest they lack ambition and confidence, and no way should he have been reappointed a short while later.
I feel we should give him until the end of the season when I think we will finish 12th.
That is obvious progress but can anybody realistically see this bloke leading us to promotion?
I can’t.
I also don’t think it will be a good idea to let him stay in a lesser role as he will lack any credibility.

In my book it was so obvious he never had any credibility in the first place

Disagree,
I felt the club were right to let him have a go after JE died.
Not sure it was a good idea to reappoint him after apparently saying he didn’t want the job.
If the rumours are correct the previous manager wanted to get rid of him, which suggests if true, he wasn’t supportive.

Type high wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:27 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:28 am Wasted opportunity.

I agree with you so much, such an opportunity lost, seems like organizers deliberately watering down questions being put into show, to avoid confrontation

An opportunity taken by Gilson & chums to ingratiate themselves with the Club though, so they'll be happy at least - and that's what really matters

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:24 am

Type high wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:03 am

Still wrong wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:26 pm

I have had my doubts about this fella from day one.
We were told that he didn’t want the job for whatever reason.
If that was the case then he should not have been considered again.
For someone to turn down a golden opportunity like this would suggest they lack ambition and confidence, and no way should he have been reappointed a short while later.
I feel we should give him until the end of the season when I think we will finish 12th.
That is obvious progress but can anybody realistically see this bloke leading us to promotion?
I can’t.
I also don’t think it will be a good idea to let him stay in a lesser role as he will lack any credibility.

In my book it was so obvious he never had any credibility in the first place

Disagree,
I felt the club were right to let him have a go after JE died.
Not sure it was a good idea to reappoint him after apparently saying he didn’t want the job.
If the rumours are correct the previous manager wanted to get rid of him, which suggests if true, he wasn’t supportive.

Can you give more detail on that last sentence, what rumour was that completely new to me

Type high wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:35 am

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:24 am

Type high wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:03 am

In my book it was so obvious he never had any credibility in the first place

Disagree,
I felt the club were right to let him have a go after JE died.
Not sure it was a good idea to reappoint him after apparently saying he didn’t want the job.
If the rumours are correct the previous manager wanted to get rid of him, which suggests if true, he wasn’t supportive.

Can you give more detail on that last sentence, what rumour was that completely new to me

Well it was said that Fletcher produced a list of several names that he wanted out of the club.
I believe they were not all players, but as the names were never disclosed we will never know.

Reading up on this apparently Fletcher failed to gel with his coaching staff.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 88291.html

tbf it was Webby who had the biggest tantrum when Fletcher was appointed. After JE died, Ling repeatedly overlooked Webb, which was at the root of a lot of ill feeling.

This might be a little clearer.
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport ... dismissal/

Back to Fletcher & his abysmal stay as Manager .



This is Laughable now .

OyinbO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:55 am tbf it was Webby who had the biggest tantrum when Fletcher was appointed. After JE died, Ling repeatedly overlooked Webb, which was at the root of a lot of ill feeling.

Well we will never know.
Reading in between the lines the coaching staff didn’t rate the inexperienced Fletcher.
It seemed like a him and us culture.
He didn’t have the track record to command respect and that should have been obvious from the start.
It doesn’t take a leap of the imagination to see that he would liked to have bought his own people in.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:01 pm Back to Fletcher & his abysmal stay as Manager .



This is Laughable now .

Just answering a question.
He didn’t appear to get the support from the back room staff.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:27 am I’m listening now and he says “I would not personally play 4-3-3 if it were my choice” err it is your choice. He goes on to say we don’t have the players to play any other way, err your the head coach and we all know we have a transfer committee and you are a part of it, why aren’t the other boys and girls listening to you when you must therefore be suggesting we need a different type of player so we can play with two up top which is your preferred way of playing.

The man is talking bollocks, sorry.

Couldn’t agree more, he has had enough time to ask for the players he wants not to play 4-3-3 .
Why on earth is he in the job still he hasn’t got a clue or the balls to ask for the players he wants to play a better more attractive style of football that people will pay to watch.

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:03 pm

OyinbO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:55 am tbf it was Webby who had the biggest tantrum when Fletcher was appointed. After JE died, Ling repeatedly overlooked Webb, which was at the root of a lot of ill feeling.

Well we will never know.
Reading in between the lines the coaching staff didn’t rate the inexperienced Fletcher.
It seemed like a him and us culture.
He didn’t have the track record to command respect and that should have been obvious from the start.
It doesn’t take a leap of the imagination to see that he would liked to have bought his own people in.

I do know, and that’s why I said it

I actually rate Webb over Embleton, as do most of the players, and as did JE (but obvs Ling took the opposite view). So I’m not saying this because I’m trying to make him look bad, I’m saying it because it (to the best of my knowledge) is true.

OyinbO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:25 pm

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:03 pm

OyinbO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:55 am tbf it was Webby who had the biggest tantrum when Fletcher was appointed. After JE died, Ling repeatedly overlooked Webb, which was at the root of a lot of ill feeling.

Well we will never know.
Reading in between the lines the coaching staff didn’t rate the inexperienced Fletcher.
It seemed like a him and us culture.
He didn’t have the track record to command respect and that should have been obvious from the start.
It doesn’t take a leap of the imagination to see that he would liked to have bought his own people in.

I do know, and that’s why I said it

I actually rate Webb over Embleton, as do most of the players, and as did JE (but obvs Ling took the opposite view). So I’m not saying this because I’m trying to make him look bad, I’m saying it because it (to the best of my knowledge) is true.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s true.
I said at the time it Fletcher was a ridiculous appointment.
I agree if we were going to appoint from within then it made even less sense to appoint a bloke who said he didn’t want the job or they previously took off him.
I would have imagined Webb would have felt put out as he would have been a better appointment than either Fletcher or Ross.

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:05 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:01 pm Back to Fletcher & his abysmal stay as Manager .



This is Laughable now .

Just answering a question.
He didn’t appear to get the support from the back room staff.

The bloke didnt deserve backing .

OyinbO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:25 pm

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:03 pm

OyinbO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:55 am

I do know, and that’s why I said it

I actually rate Webb over Embleton, as do most of the players,

More Bullsh*t without proof

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:41 pm

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:05 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:01 pm Back to Fletcher & his abysmal stay as Manager .



This is Laughable now .

Just answering a question.
He didn’t appear to get the support from the back room staff.

The bloke didnt deserve backing .

Yes he did.
They appointed him at a cost of 60 k.
Admittedly a ridiculous appointment but they should have backed him.
If that meant getting rid of staff who undermine him , then so be it.

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:47 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:41 pm

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:05 pm

Just answering a question.
He didn’t appear to get the support from the back room staff.

The bloke didnt deserve backing .

Yes he did.
They appointed him at a cost of 60 k.
Admittedly a ridiculous appointment but they should have backed him.
If that meant getting rid of staff who undermine him , then so be it.

Why back a bloke who lied at his Interview ?

Why the F*ck would any Employer back someone who LIED to get the Job ?

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:41 pm

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:05 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:01 pm Back to Fletcher & his abysmal stay as Manager .



This is Laughable now .

Just answering a question.
He didn’t appear to get the support from the back room staff.

The bloke didnt deserve backing .

The most ridiculous comment.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:50 pm

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:47 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:41 pm

The bloke didnt deserve backing .

Yes he did.
They appointed him at a cost of 60 k.
Admittedly a ridiculous appointment but they should have backed him.
If that meant getting rid of staff who undermine him , then so be it.

Why back a bloke who lied at his Interview ?

Why the F*ck would any Employer back someone who LIED to get the Job ?

I wasn’t at the interview. Could you tell me what lie he said?

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:43 pm

OyinbO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:25 pm

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:03 pm

I do know, and that’s why I said it

I actually rate Webb over Embleton, as do most of the players,

More Bullsh*t without proof

As you don't go to games you wouldn't have seen things the way others have or did. Webb was the go to guy on the bench, Justin always went to Webb not the boy, EVER.

When the head coach behaves in that manner game after game it is telling in who he places his trust in.

Why do you think Webb had the bust up in the changing room which led to his dismissal? I'd hazard a guess he was frustrated with a boss who is not cut out for the role and is not good enough nor one who he thinks is better than himself.

Tuffers if we had fans in the ground now Ross would be gone as the ill feeling towards him is growing by the game. Just look at twitter and on here when things go wrong for a example of the abuse he would face.

I don't think the time to go is yet, as he needs to prove he can or can't coach, motivate and lead the better players he has brought in to the club. If he fails between now and the end of the season then his position may well become untenable.

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:57 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:50 pm

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:47 pm

Yes he did.
They appointed him at a cost of 60 k.
Admittedly a ridiculous appointment but they should have backed him.
If that meant getting rid of staff who undermine him , then so be it.

Why back a bloke who lied at his Interview ?

Why the F*ck would any Employer back someone who LIED to get the Job ?

I wasn’t at the interview. Could you tell me what lie he said?

The rumours were Ross had to go along with Sam, once they happened then he was a dead man walking. There were 5 others on the list as well.

The point tuf is referring to was he would work with what he had then decided he couldn't. Remember Campbell pulled out cos he had to work with the existing staff, I personally can see reasons for both visions, its just the clubs overrides anyones else's.

Personally after the first 45 mins which was absolutely astounding football if that's the route he was going we should have given him time to implement his vision.