Independent Leyton Orient Forum

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:18 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:15 pm
There isn’t a single footballer from the last century who could keep up with Gareth Bale over a 100 yard sprint.

Obviously you don't remember Stuart Hicks then, Ronnie.

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:41 pm

Cunningham would have Chidozie would defo have. That’s just at our club.

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:09 pm Love seeing a bunch of old out of shape men who stuff themselves with pies most days lecturing everyone on what pro athletes should be able to do

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:15 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:41 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:02 pm

Sid you do realise the fitter a person is
The more developed they are in muscles
The more susceptible to injury they becaome.

Over use of the body is as bad as under use ofthe body .

You are talking to a person in myself who before my injury was butchers dog fit, used to play midweek indoor 5 a side football and 11 a side on most Saturdays and Sundays. I played football regularly since around 10 years old and captained my school sides till i left school at 16 years old. When playing adult football we did pre season cross country was part of the training and went training for 3 hours sessions, twice a week after work all taken by an ex army PT instructor and he literally made you sweat blood ! Seems to be an idea on this forum that Pro Footballers of years ago were in the main out of condition, alcoholics and puffed out after making a run down the pitch, what complete nonsense. Just a couple of players I saw play live....John White of Spurs and Scotland was a Mr Perpetual, slim as a biscuit and a celebrated cross-country runner. Cliff Jones, Wales and Spurs left winger, fastest winger by far I have ever seen and could have given Gareth Bale a 5 yard start over a 100 yards sprint. Stanley Mathews, a fitness freak who played till he was 50 years old ''Matthews was a vegetarian and a teetotaler, his first drink of alcohol not coming until he sipped champagne in the locker room to celebrate leading Blackpool to the FA Cup in a match that came to be known as “The Matthews Final” for his brilliant dribbling displays'' Lastly, pitches were awful years ago, really drained your energy and the old dubbin balls were like heading a medicine ball. Greaves and Best would be even more deadly if they were around now.

There isn’t a single footballer from the last century who could keep up with Gareth Bale over a 100 yard sprint.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:41 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:02 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:36 pm

And you think they never played 2 games a week years ago ?

Sid you do realise the fitter a person is
The more developed they are in muscles
The more susceptible to injury they becaome.

Over use of the body is as bad as under use ofthe body .

You are talking to a person in myself who before my injury was butchers dog fit, used to play midweek indoor 5 a side football and 11 a side on most Saturdays and Sundays. I played football regularly since around 10 years old and captained my school sides till i left school at 16 years old. When playing adult football we did pre season cross country was part of the training and went training for 3 hours sessions, twice a week after work all taken by an ex army PT instructor and he literally made you sweat blood ! Seems to be an idea on this forum that Pro Footballers of years ago were in the main out of condition, alcoholics and puffed out after making a run down the pitch, what complete nonsense. Just a couple of players I saw play live....John White of Spurs and Scotland was a Mr Perpetual, slim as a biscuit and a celebrated cross-country runner. Cliff Jones, Wales and Spurs left winger, fastest winger by far I have ever seen and could have given Gareth Bale a 5 yard start over a 100 yards sprint. Stanley Mathews, a fitness freak who played till he was 50 years old ''Matthews was a vegetarian and a teetotaler, his first drink of alcohol not coming until he sipped champagne in the locker room to celebrate leading Blackpool to the FA Cup in a match that came to be known as “The Matthews Final” for his brilliant dribbling displays'' Lastly, pitches were awful years ago, really drained your energy and the old dubbin balls were like heading a medicine ball. Greaves and Best would be even more deadly if they were around now.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:24 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:41 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:02 pm

Sid you do realise the fitter a person is
The more developed they are in muscles
The more susceptible to injury they becaome.

Over use of the body is as bad as under use ofthe body .

You are talking to a person in myself who before my injury was butchers dog fit, used to play midweek indoor 5 a side football and 11 a side on most Saturdays and Sundays. I played football regularly since around 10 years old and captained my school sides till i left school at 16 years old. When playing adult football we did pre season cross country was part of the training and went training for 3 hours sessions, twice a week after work all taken by an ex army PT instructor and he literally made you sweat blood ! Seems to be an idea on this forum that Pro Footballers of years ago were in the main out of condition, alcoholics and puffed out after making a run down the pitch, what complete nonsense. Just a couple of players I saw play live....John White of Spurs and Scotland was a Mr Perpetual, slim as a biscuit and a celebrated cross-country runner. Cliff Jones, Wales and Spurs left winger, fastest winger by far I have ever seen and could have given Gareth Bale a 5 yard start over a 100 yards sprint. Stanley Mathews, a fitness freak who played till he was 50 years old ''Matthews was a vegetarian and a teetotaler, his first drink of alcohol not coming until he sipped champagne in the locker room to celebrate leading Blackpool to the FA Cup in a match that came to be known as “The Matthews Final” for his brilliant dribbling displays'' Lastly, pitches were awful years ago, really drained your energy and the old dubbin balls were like heading a medicine ball. Greaves and Best would be even more deadly if they were around now.

There's no way a player could play at the top level aged 50 thesedays, so that's more evidence that proves football back then was less demanding. Your Uncle Albert "back in my day" posts discredit your own argument.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:28 pm

Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:24 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:22 pm Germany & Japan both swear by it

Both lost the 2nd world war & yet
Are remarkably further ahead in the
World than here .

Maybe it is time to learn a few things from losing .

https://businessculture.org/western-eur ... n-germany/

http://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/AJ ... 10001.html

Daft analogy

You think ?

Well well theres a suprise

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:32 am

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:24 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:41 pm

You are talking to a person in myself who before my injury was butchers dog fit, used to play midweek indoor 5 a side football and 11 a side on most Saturdays and Sundays. I played football regularly since around 10 years old and captained my school sides till i left school at 16 years old. When playing adult football we did pre season cross country was part of the training and went training for 3 hours sessions, twice a week after work all taken by an ex army PT instructor and he literally made you sweat blood ! Seems to be an idea on this forum that Pro Footballers of years ago were in the main out of condition, alcoholics and puffed out after making a run down the pitch, what complete nonsense. Just a couple of players I saw play live....John White of Spurs and Scotland was a Mr Perpetual, slim as a biscuit and a celebrated cross-country runner. Cliff Jones, Wales and Spurs left winger, fastest winger by far I have ever seen and could have given Gareth Bale a 5 yard start over a 100 yards sprint. Stanley Mathews, a fitness freak who played till he was 50 years old ''Matthews was a vegetarian and a teetotaler, his first drink of alcohol not coming until he sipped champagne in the locker room to celebrate leading Blackpool to the FA Cup in a match that came to be known as “The Matthews Final” for his brilliant dribbling displays'' Lastly, pitches were awful years ago, really drained your energy and the old dubbin balls were like heading a medicine ball. Greaves and Best would be even more deadly if they were around now.

There's no way a player could play at the top level aged 50 thesedays, so that's more evidence that proves football back then was less demanding. Your Uncle Albert "back in my day" posts discredit your own argument.

You are an argumentative person who takes pleasure in putting down anything to do with what happened prior to your lifetime, that is how you are. Silly debate anyway which cannot be proved either way, but if you really believe that the great teams with great international players of years ago ( without you actually being present at those games to be able to make a valid comparison ) were all so unfit, drinkers smokers etc that they would have been rolled over by mediocre teams Division 2 teams like the present Leyton Orient side, then go on believing that. Stanley Mathews for just one example was an avid keep fit fanatic, non smoker and non drinker. Anyway I think differently and have the advantage of being there to actually watch and compare the players of the different teams, times and eras, I leave it at that.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:49 am

J R Hartley wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:39 am Did we ever drop Macauly Bonn for a game, thought he played non stop for us from the word go never missed a match.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport. ... -puel/amp/

CONFIRMED Leicester City team news: Jamie Vardy dropped for West Ham clash amid reports of falling out with Claude Puel

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.u ... 72364/amp/

Jurgen Klopp explains why Mohamed Salah has been dropped for Liverpool vs Everton Comment

Your point is JR ?

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:32 am

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:24 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:41 pm

You are talking to a person in myself who before my injury was butchers dog fit, used to play midweek indoor 5 a side football and 11 a side on most Saturdays and Sundays. I played football regularly since around 10 years old and captained my school sides till i left school at 16 years old. When playing adult football we did pre season cross country was part of the training and went training for 3 hours sessions, twice a week after work all taken by an ex army PT instructor and he literally made you sweat blood ! Seems to be an idea on this forum that Pro Footballers of years ago were in the main out of condition, alcoholics and puffed out after making a run down the pitch, what complete nonsense. Just a couple of players I saw play live....John White of Spurs and Scotland was a Mr Perpetual, slim as a biscuit and a celebrated cross-country runner. Cliff Jones, Wales and Spurs left winger, fastest winger by far I have ever seen and could have given Gareth Bale a 5 yard start over a 100 yards sprint. Stanley Mathews, a fitness freak who played till he was 50 years old ''Matthews was a vegetarian and a teetotaler, his first drink of alcohol not coming until he sipped champagne in the locker room to celebrate leading Blackpool to the FA Cup in a match that came to be known as “The Matthews Final” for his brilliant dribbling displays'' Lastly, pitches were awful years ago, really drained your energy and the old dubbin balls were like heading a medicine ball. Greaves and Best would be even more deadly if they were around now.

There's no way a player could play at the top level aged 50 thesedays, so that's more evidence that proves football back then was less demanding. Your Uncle Albert "back in my day" posts discredit your own argument.

You are an argumentative person who takes pleasure in putting down anything to do with what happened prior to your lifetime, that is how you are. Silly debate anyway which cannot be proved either way, but if you really believe that the great teams with great international players of years ago ( without you actually being present at those games to be able to make a valid comparison ) were all so unfit, drinkers smokers etc that they would have been rolled over by mediocre teams Division 2 teams like the present Leyton Orient side, then go on believing that. Stanley Mathews for just one example was an avid keep fit fanatic, non smoker and non drinker. Anyway I think differently and have the advantage of being there to actually watch and compare the players of the different teams, times and eras, I leave it at that.

J R Hartley wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:47 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:49 am

J R Hartley wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:39 am Did we ever drop Macauly Bonn for a game, thought he played non stop for us from the word go never missed a match.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport. ... -puel/amp/

CONFIRMED Leicester City team news: Jamie Vardy dropped for West Ham clash amid reports of falling out with Claude Puel

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.u ... 72364/amp/

Jurgen Klopp explains why Mohamed Salah has been dropped for Liverpool vs Everton Comment

Your point is JR ?

Both Leicester and Liverpool have the luxury of other forwards, we however at this stage do not. Playing Danny in a dead rubber game is stupid to say the least

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:49 am

J R Hartley wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:47 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:49 am

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport. ... -puel/amp/

CONFIRMED Leicester City team news: Jamie Vardy dropped for West Ham clash amid reports of falling out with Claude Puel

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.u ... 72364/amp/

Jurgen Klopp explains why Mohamed Salah has been dropped for Liverpool vs Everton Comment

Your point is JR ?

Both Leicester and Liverpool have the luxury of other forwards, we however at this stage do not. Playing Danny in a dead rubber game is stupid to say the least

I don't know what dead rubber game means.

But this is a different argument. Yes, I believe DJ should have been given more time out earlier in the season, rather than playing the 16 games or whatever it was on the spin.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:00 am I refuse to enter into further discussion on this topic with any of the geriatric nostalgia crew.

You’re being ridiculous. There is no comparison between top level athletes of today and those of 50 years ago in any sport. That’s just scientific fact.

Cavalier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:59 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:51 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:47 pm

Were you there playing football around those times or even at the grounds watching the players of the 60s and 70s ?
If not then hard to take your claims seriously against those who were there ( like myself ) and so be able to make any sort of valid comparisons.

That's just more nonsense from you though. You don't need to have been there to know how much the game has changed, the demands nowadays, the fact that drinking and smoking was widespread and accepted back then, that players were nowhere near as fit or muscular well built and didn't spend as much time working on their fitness as the players of today do. You don't need to have been there to know that the games are faster and more intense now and with tactics such as pressing fitness is so much more important.

Just ask yourself...since the players of today could (if they wanted) devote as much time to drinking as their counterparts could 40-50 years ago then why don't they?

Obviously forgetting about Rooneys actions.
And of course the numinous drinking and roasting sessions that has gone on.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:47 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:32 am

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:24 am

There's no way a player could play at the top level aged 50 thesedays, so that's more evidence that proves football back then was less demanding. Your Uncle Albert "back in my day" posts discredit your own argument.

You are an argumentative person who takes pleasure in putting down anything to do with what happened prior to your lifetime, that is how you are. Silly debate anyway which cannot be proved either way, but if you really believe that the great teams with great international players of years ago ( without you actually being present at those games to be able to make a valid comparison ) were all so unfit, drinkers smokers etc that they would have been rolled over by mediocre teams Division 2 teams like the present Leyton Orient side, then go on believing that. Stanley Mathews for just one example was an avid keep fit fanatic, non smoker and non drinker. Anyway I think differently and have the advantage of being there to actually watch and compare the players of the different teams, times and eras, I leave it at that.

Ok, let's keep it to my lifetime then.

The all conquering Liverpool team of the mid 80s would be dead on their feet after 60 minutes against us. And that's just 35 years ago, never mind the 60 or 70 years you're talking about with Stanley Matthews.

I know it's tough to take but things have moved on, and continue to do so at an even more alarming rate.

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:35 pm

Cavalier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:59 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:51 pm

That's just more nonsense from you though. You don't need to have been there to know how much the game has changed, the demands nowadays, the fact that drinking and smoking was widespread and accepted back then, that players were nowhere near as fit or muscular well built and didn't spend as much time working on their fitness as the players of today do. You don't need to have been there to know that the games are faster and more intense now and with tactics such as pressing fitness is so much more important.

Just ask yourself...since the players of today could (if they wanted) devote as much time to drinking as their counterparts could 40-50 years ago then why don't they?

Obviously forgetting about Rooneys actions.
And of course the numinous drinking and roasting sessions that has gone on.

The example of Rooney actually contradicts your point. He was pretty much finished as a top-level player by the time he was 30. Had he looked after himself better he’d still be playing for a top club like Giggs and Scholes did.

Sid - you seem to be overlooking the difference between playing 2 games a week and playing 2 games a week WELL. Most pro footballers could play 2 games a week if they had to, but the issue is performing at a high level for 2 games a week. This is pretty much impossible to do consistently. Orient have been playing Saturday-Tuesday for the last 6 weeks, which is insane. You can’t expect players to keep performing well each time over such a period.

I challenge anyone on here with the mindset of “oh footballers only train a couple of hours a day, can’t be that hard” to actually train like a footballer for a week and see how you feel then, and then decide whether you think playing twice a week is manageable.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:47 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:32 am

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:24 am

There's no way a player could play at the top level aged 50 thesedays, so that's more evidence that proves football back then was less demanding. Your Uncle Albert "back in my day" posts discredit your own argument.

You are an argumentative person who takes pleasure in putting down anything to do with what happened prior to your lifetime, that is how you are. Silly debate anyway which cannot be proved either way, but if you really believe that the great teams with great international players of years ago ( without you actually being present at those games to be able to make a valid comparison ) were all so unfit, drinkers smokers etc that they would have been rolled over by mediocre teams Division 2 teams like the present Leyton Orient side, then go on believing that. Stanley Mathews for just one example was an avid keep fit fanatic, non smoker and non drinker. Anyway I think differently and have the advantage of being there to actually watch and compare the players of the different teams, times and eras, I leave it at that.

Ok, let's keep it to my lifetime then.

The all conquering Liverpool team of the mid 80s would be dead on their feet after 60 minutes against us. And that's just 35 years ago, never mind the 60 or 70 years you're talking about with Stanley Matthews.

I know it's tough to take but things have moved on, and continue to do so at an even more alarming rate.

J R Hartley wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:38 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:28 pm

Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:24 pm

Daft analogy

You think ?

Well well theres a suprise

You mean like the labour party learning from electoral defeat time after time, after time.

J R Hartley wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:47 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:49 am

J R Hartley wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:39 am Did we ever drop Macauly Bonn for a game, thought he played non stop for us from the word go never missed a match.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport. ... -puel/amp/

CONFIRMED Leicester City team news: Jamie Vardy dropped for West Ham clash amid reports of falling out with Claude Puel

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.u ... 72364/amp/

Jurgen Klopp explains why Mohamed Salah has been dropped for Liverpool vs Everton Comment

Your point is JR ?

Both Leicester and Liverpool have the luxury of other forwards, we however at this stage do not. Playing Danny in a dead rubber game is stupid to say the least

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:37 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:47 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:32 am

Peter Thompson Liverpool Legend

J R Hartley wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:57 am

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:49 am

J R Hartley wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:47 am


Both Leicester and Liverpool have the luxury of other forwards, we however at this stage do not. Playing Danny in a dead rubber game is stupid to say the least

I don't know what dead rubber game means.

But this is a different argument. Yes, I believe DJ should have been given more time out earlier in the season, rather than playing the 16 games or whatever it was on the spin.

The game was of no Consequences, we were top of the group already qualified for next stage even if we lost. We have no midweek game this week, that would be the rest he might possibly needed