Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:54 am**

slacker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:06 am I suppose that depends on whether you think anti-racism and tackling white supremacists is politics or just plain common decency, Bera.

My view is any symbolic gesture that's repeated too often loses its effect and withers away soon enough. Like the NHS clapping guff. Still, the annual poppy madness season sort of disproves my point, but at least that's only ( a few weeks now) every year.

They're all different.

The powers that be aren't really in favour of this taking the knee, there's no support for it - see Raab mentioned above refusing to do it.

They'll get behind the NHS clap, but then when it comes to making sure the NHS staff are adequately paid and protected, they're not interested.

But the poppy stuff is something they do genuinely support - they love stoking up jingoism and having a good old war.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:56 am**

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:24 am
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:36 am PW is obsessed with why people care about things in the US - it's weird.
Because this isn't the US.

When will they be taking a knee for Chinese persecution of Muslims?
Is racism scared of water? Lucky the Atlantic is in the way.

Whats Chinese persecutions got to do with racism in the US and here? Unless, of course, you are proposing that we dont bother trying to address anything because theres other bad stuff happening in the world?

What racism here? That mp who got pulled over?

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:58 am**

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:30 am Genuine question - do people REALLY think that bias against black people only happens in America? Cant tell if it's a deflection tactic or the ultimate head in the sand.

Of course racism happens worldwide, but this BLM stuff was a response to specific US events.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:01 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:56 am
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:24 am

Because this isn't the US.

When will they be taking a knee for Chinese persecution of Muslims?
Is racism scared of water? Lucky the Atlantic is in the way.

Whats Chinese persecutions got to do with racism in the US and here? Unless, of course, you are proposing that we dont bother trying to address anything because theres other bad stuff happening in the world?
What racism here? That mp who got pulled over?

Well, there's your problem. And probably why we need more of these symbolic gestures that start making people think about the racial bias that happens every single day in this country.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:02 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:58 am
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:30 am Genuine question - do people REALLY think that bias against black people only happens in America? Cant tell if it's a deflection tactic or the ultimate head in the sand.
Of course racism happens worldwide, but this BLM stuff was a response to specific US events.

So? It means that it cant inspire change to racism here? Or that events that happen in the US couldn't or dont happen here?

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:04 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:58 am
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:30 am Genuine question - do people REALLY think that bias against black people only happens in America? Cant tell if it's a deflection tactic or the ultimate head in the sand.
Of course racism happens worldwide, but this BLM stuff was a response to specific US events.

Is there something wrong with people reacting to things that happen
In different countries ?

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:11 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:58 am
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:30 am Genuine question - do people REALLY think that bias against black people only happens in America? Cant tell if it's a deflection tactic or the ultimate head in the sand.
Of course racism happens worldwide, but this BLM stuff was a response to specific US events.

Pull your head out of your arse mate. It's the culmination of thousands of events globally that have built up over tens of years. It'd be like picking the last thing that happened before a war and saying that the war was the response to that act.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:13 pm**

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:01 pm
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:56 am
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am

Is racism scared of water? Lucky the Atlantic is in the way.

Whats Chinese persecutions got to do with racism in the US and here? Unless, of course, you are proposing that we dont bother trying to address anything because theres other bad stuff happening in the world?
What racism here? That mp who got pulled over?
Well, there's your problem. And probably why we need more of these symbolic gestures that start making people think about the racial bias that happens every single day in this country.

I don't believe racism here is anywhere near as bad as the US.

Find the gestures annoying, rather than thought provoking.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:14 pm**

Adz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:11 pm
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:58 am
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:30 am Genuine question - do people REALLY think that bias against black people only happens in America? Cant tell if it's a deflection tactic or the ultimate head in the sand.
Of course racism happens worldwide, but this BLM stuff was a response to specific US events.
Pull your head out of your arse mate. It's the culmination of thousands of events globally that have built up over tens of years. It'd be like picking the last thing that happened before a war and saying that the war was the response to that act.

Disagree.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:16 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:13 pm
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:01 pm
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:56 am
What racism here? That mp who got pulled over?
Well, there's your problem. And probably why we need more of these symbolic gestures that start making people think about the racial bias that happens every single day in this country.
I don't believe racism here is anywhere near as bad as the US.

Find the gestures annoying, rather than thought provoking.

I think you're probably right, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and/or we should look to improve things here. The USA isn't a place to compare yourself to when setting up moral codes!

Interesting. What do you think they could do that would get someone like you to take notice? Genuine question because i dont think you are wrong - i think you're in good company and its those people that would be really useful to be able to get to somehow. I dont necessarily think taking a knee is going to change much. I think its good that it gets people talking about it, good and bad but what next?

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:21 pm**

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:21 am
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:12 am
What about the attitude of people towards those in uniform?

There are also lots of people who like to do what they want and not be pulled up on their actions.
What about it ?
They are public servants ,
Employed to protect the public .

How is pounding a kids head on the floor
protecting the public ?

Perhaps if these kids showed an ounce of remorse or respect and behaved they wouldn't get their heads pounded?

Sometimes people get what their own actions deserve.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:24 pm**

George wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:22 am My objection is not necessarily about taking the knee , although it probably has run its course , it is the fact that they replay it before every game on MOTD. It is supposed to be a football highlight programme.
Also , why do football clubs / leagues take the moral high ground. You would not expect to see this at cricket / golf / athletics, for example. I have never even seen a minutes silence at a cricket game.
I don’t need the knee to make me aware of racism and frankly , I couldn’t care less what goes on in the USA. It is a cesspit of hatred

That's what it is. It highlights those that are not doing what the tv companies believe to be the right thing.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:25 pm**

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:21 pm
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:21 am
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:12 am
What about the attitude of people towards those in uniform?

There are also lots of people who like to do what they want and not be pulled up on their actions.
What about it ?
They are public servants ,
Employed to protect the public .

How is pounding a kids head on the floor
protecting the public ?
Perhaps if these kids showed an ounce of remorse or respect and behaved they wouldn't get their heads pounded?

Sometimes people get what their own actions deserve.

Did this kid show disrespect & what did he need to be remorseful for ?

Not being white ?

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:25 pm**

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:16 pm
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:13 pm
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:01 pm
Well, there's your problem. And probably why we need more of these symbolic gestures that start making people think about the racial bias that happens every single day in this country.
I don't believe racism here is anywhere near as bad as the US.

Find the gestures annoying, rather than thought provoking.
I think you're probably right, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and/or we should look to improve things here. The USA isn't a place to compare yourself to when setting up moral codes!

Interesting. What do you think they could do that would get someone like you to take notice? Genuine question because i dont think you are wrong - i think you're in good company and its those people that would be really useful to be able to get to somehow. I dont necessarily think taking a knee is going to change much. I think its good that it gets people talking about it, good and bad but what next?

I think people would respond better to something like hearing personal experiences of racism from people they know.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:28 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:25 pm
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:16 pm
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:13 pm
I don't believe racism here is anywhere near as bad as the US.

Find the gestures annoying, rather than thought provoking.
I think you're probably right, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and/or we should look to improve things here. The USA isn't a place to compare yourself to when setting up moral codes!

Interesting. What do you think they could do that would get someone like you to take notice? Genuine question because i dont think you are wrong - i think you're in good company and its those people that would be really useful to be able to get to somehow. I dont necessarily think taking a knee is going to change much. I think its good that it gets people talking about it, good and bad but what next?
I think people would respond better to something like hearing personal experiences of racism from people they know.

Agree. Had a couple of good conversations with a few people in my team at work and it made me incredibly sad and made me consider where i can help/if im doing everything i can to help BAME people get a fair shot at things like promotions. One person was happy to talk to the wider department and it was incredibly moving to hear him describe the problems he faces every day because of his race. Almost certainly got some people to think about things that they have never thought about before.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:30 pm**

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:24 pm
George wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:22 am My objection is not necessarily about taking the knee , although it probably has run its course , it is the fact that they replay it before every game on MOTD. It is supposed to be a football highlight programme.
Also , why do football clubs / leagues take the moral high ground. You would not expect to see this at cricket / golf / athletics, for example. I have never even seen a minutes silence at a cricket game.
I don’t need the knee to make me aware of racism and frankly , I couldn’t care less what goes on in the USA. It is a cesspit of hatred
That's what it is. It highlights those that are not doing what the tv companies believe to be the right thing.

Its got nothing to do with what tv companies believe is right !!
That's rubbish .

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:32 pm**

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:25 pm
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:21 pm
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:21 am

What about it ?
They are public servants ,
Employed to protect the public .

How is pounding a kids head on the floor
protecting the public ?
Perhaps if these kids showed an ounce of remorse or respect and behaved they wouldn't get their heads pounded?

Sometimes people get what their own actions deserve.
Did this kid show disrespect & what did he need to be remorseful for ?

Not being white ?

White kids have just as bad an attitude to people in authority. As do most kids regardless of race.

In this specific case the whole situation would need to be viewed rather than an edited version.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:33 pm**

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:30 pm
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:24 pm
George wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:22 am My objection is not necessarily about taking the knee , although it probably has run its course , it is the fact that they replay it before every game on MOTD. It is supposed to be a football highlight programme.
Also , why do football clubs / leagues take the moral high ground. You would not expect to see this at cricket / golf / athletics, for example. I have never even seen a minutes silence at a cricket game.
I don’t need the knee to make me aware of racism and frankly , I couldn’t care less what goes on in the USA. It is a cesspit of hatred
That's what it is. It highlights those that are not doing what the tv companies believe to be the right thing.
Its got nothing to do with what tv companies believe is right !!
That's rubbish .

So BBC, Sky or BT would not highlight any teams or individuals not taking the knee?

Like they did with Israel Folau in the rugby?

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:34 pm**

The amount of middle aged white blokes in here getting absolutely ratted by footballers kneeling for about 10 seconds before kick off

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:36 pm**

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:21 pm
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:21 am
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:12 am
What about the attitude of people towards those in uniform?

There are also lots of people who like to do what they want and not be pulled up on their actions.
What about it ?
They are public servants ,
Employed to protect the public .

How is pounding a kids head on the floor
protecting the public ?
Perhaps if these kids showed an ounce of remorse or respect and behaved they wouldn't get their heads pounded?

Sometimes people get what their own actions deserve.

The police aren’t there to pound kids heads into the floor. They’re there to uphold the law

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:36 pm**

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:32 pm
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:25 pm
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:21 pm

Perhaps if these kids showed an ounce of remorse or respect and behaved they wouldn't get their heads pounded?

Sometimes people get what their own actions deserve.
Did this kid show disrespect & what did he need to be remorseful for ?

Not being white ?
White kids have just as bad an attitude to people in authority. As do most kids regardless of race.

In this specific case the whole situation would need to be viewed rather than an edited version.

Making a comment about repect & remorse need to be edited in
relation to this specific clip . Stinks of Bigotry otherwise.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:38 pm**

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:34 pm The amount of middle aged white blokes in here getting absolutely ratted by footballers kneeling for about 10 seconds before kick off

You think Im getting ratted? I dont care whether they do or dont. Coluldnt give a flying one. Makes no difference to my life.

I do find it enjoyable to keep commenting on these types of subject though

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:41 pm**

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:33 pm
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:30 pm
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:24 pm

That's what it is. It highlights those that are not doing what the tv companies believe to be the right thing.
Its got nothing to do with what tv companies believe is right !!
That's rubbish .

So BBC, Sky or BT would not highlight any teams or individuals not taking the knee?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rug ... 50906.html

Sounds more like people moaned on social media & led to a.media reaction.

Like they did with Israel Folau in the rugby?

Oh the israel folau thing i responded to the last time you used it .

Nobody criticised him , it was discussed & he was admonished by the
Commentators.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:48 pm**

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:41 pm
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:33 pm
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:30 pm

Its got nothing to do with what tv companies believe is right !!
That's rubbish .

So BBC, Sky or BT would not highlight any teams or individuals not taking the knee?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rug ... 50906.html

Sounds more like people moaned on social media & led to a.media reaction.

Like they did with Israel Folau in the rugby?
Oh the israel folau thing i responded to the last time you used it .

Nobody criticised him , it was discussed & he was admonished by the
Commentators.

admonish
/ədˈmɒnɪʃ/
Learn to pronounce
verb
past tense: admonished; past participle: admonished
warn or reprimand someone firmly.

Why should he be admonished? Doesnt he have a choice? Thanks for proving my point.

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:58 pm**

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:38 pm
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:34 pm The amount of middle aged white blokes in here getting absolutely ratted by footballers kneeling for about 10 seconds before kick off
You think Im getting ratted? I dont care whether they do or dont. Coluldnt give a flying one. Makes no difference to my life.

I do find it enjoyable to keep commenting on these types of subject though

sure it doesn't

Independent Leyton Orient Forum

"Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"

Re: "Taking the knee"