Independent Leyton Orient Forum

We could always experiment with a back 5 with Turley, Happe & Widdowson as the 3 CB's and Ling and Brophy as flying wingbacks.

Ling as flying wing back.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:45 am Vigourou

New RB | Turley | Happe| Widdowson

JM-D | New CM| Wright or Clay| Brophy|

Angol | Johnson

subs: Kyprianou
Ogie
Shabani
Wilkinson
Jobi
Judd
Sergeant

What about Cisse .Should be first on teamsheet

StowieO wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:49 pm We could always experiment with a back 5 with Turley, Happe & Widdowson as the 3 CB's and Ling and Brophy as flying wingbacks.

The 3 Centre Back strategy worked well for us in National League.

But didn't work for us in the first few months of the League 2 season. Especially with Ling & Widdowson as the wingbacks.

We need to have 2 Centre Backs and 2 Full Backs that can do their job.

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:24 pm by SouthStandPete » Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:13 pm

StowieO wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:49 pm
We could always experiment with a back 5 with Turley, Happe & Widdowson as the 3 CB's and Ling and Brophy as flying wingbacks.
The 3 Centre Back strategy worked well for us in National League.

But didn't work for us in the first few months of the League 2 season. Especially with Ling & Widdowson as the wingbacks.

We need to have 2 Centre Backs and 2 Full Backs that can do their job.

Agreed that the 'flying' Ling and Widdowson didn't work last year, but replace Ling with a new RB (not Turley) and with Brophy as LB and Wids inside - could be an attacking alternative when 4 at the back isn't working.

Looks to me like Ross will be sticking to 4-3-3:

GK: Vigouroux/Sargeant
RB: Judd/Ling
CB Turley/Coulson
CB: Happe/Ogie
LB: Brophy/Widdowson

CM: Wright/McAnuff
CDM: Cisse/Kyprianou
CM: Clay/Dayton

RW: Wilkinson/Sotiriou
ST: Angol/Johnson
LW: Maguire-Drew/Dennis

Can see Brophy staying at LB after get got better there as the season went on - Personally I think he is wasted a bit there, but he has his uses.

Sotiriou will likely have to work his way back into the team after coming back late to training.

Don't think Danny Johnson is suited to one up front myself, needs to be in a two, but he may have to lead the line on his own.

As I said, can see Ross sticking to 4-3-3 with the players we currently have. Still a centre half short and a striker as well it seems.

SouthStandPete wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:13 pm

StowieO wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:49 pm We could always experiment with a back 5 with Turley, Happe & Widdowson as the 3 CB's and Ling and Brophy as flying wingbacks.

The 3 Centre Back strategy worked well for us in National League.

But didn't work for us in the first few months of the League 2 season. Especially with Ling & Widdowson as the wingbacks.

We need to have 2 Centre Backs and 2 Full Backs that can do their job.

It would have worked under Justin as he knew how to set us up to play that system, he knew how to get us to defend in that shape and improve the defensive side of our game. Ross never had a clue what to do with shape, formation, tactics, substitutions.

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:13 pm

SouthStandPete wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:13 pm

StowieO wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:49 pm We could always experiment with a back 5 with Turley, Happe & Widdowson as the 3 CB's and Ling and Brophy as flying wingbacks.

The 3 Centre Back strategy worked well for us in National League.

But didn't work for us in the first few months of the League 2 season. Especially with Ling & Widdowson as the wingbacks.

We need to have 2 Centre Backs and 2 Full Backs that can do their job.

It would have worked under Justin as he knew how to set us up to play that system, he knew how to get us to defend in that shape and improve the defensive side of our game. Ross never had a clue what to do with shape, formation, tactics, substitutions.

Yet Justin was sacked by Gillingham because he failed in his 2nd year there.

Dont be so blaise ab9ut what JE might have done .
God rest his soul , but he could have been sacked for a very poor start or
Going on a long unbeaten run.
Sadly & Unfortunately we will never know

Sometimes Tuffers things fit and for the right reasons. Justin fitted in here and we fitted in with him, sometimes it’s called a marriage made in heaven and I do beleive that both parties were indeed meant to be. I also beleive that we would have got out of div 2 last season as well under him. It’s a shame the journey had to end, especially the way it did.

Now we have our memories and those memories will remain positive throughout each of our lives as the man had a massive and positive impact on us as fans.

Interesting to see the number that feel Brophy is wasted at left back. You wouldn't say TAA and Robertson are wasted in liverpools 4-3-3. Looks like we're trying to set up similar with a midfield trio of cisse, clay and wright and JMD, Johnson, Sotirou attack. Obviously we're no where near liverpools level, but the importance of a quality full back has certainly increased in the last 20 years.

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:32 pm Sometimes Tuffers things fit and for the right reasons. Justin fitted in here and we fitted in with him, sometimes it’s called a marriage made in heaven and I do beleive that both parties were indeed meant to be. I also beleive that we would have got out of div 2 last season as well under him. It’s a shame the journey had to end, especially the way it did.

Now we have our memories and those memories will remain positive throughout each of our lives as the man had a massive and positive impact on us as fans.

The trouble with all that dear thory is it never had the chance to pass .

Gillingham fans felt the same about him

I think he may have done great things ,
But there was always a much more likely possibility that he would have failed .

3 up out of 24 in each league means about 85 % of managers in the leagues below the prem fail
To achieve promotion.

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:48 am Interesting to see the number that feel Brophy is wasted at left back. You wouldn't say TAA and Robertson are wasted in liverpools 4-3-3. Looks like we're trying to set up similar with a midfield trio of cisse, clay and wright and JMD, Johnson, Sotirou attack. Obviously we're no where near liverpools level, but the importance of a quality full back has certainly increased in the last 20 years.

Agreed, with only one down the flank you need a full back who can do the offensive stuff too.

The only way we can replicate that from our current squad is with Brophy at LB and Turley at RB.

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:34 am

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:48 am Interesting to see the number that feel Brophy is wasted at left back. You wouldn't say TAA and Robertson are wasted in liverpools 4-3-3. Looks like we're trying to set up similar with a midfield trio of cisse, clay and wright and JMD, Johnson, Sotirou attack. Obviously we're no where near liverpools level, but the importance of a quality full back has certainly increased in the last 20 years.

Agreed, with only one down the flank you need a full back who can do the offensive stuff too.

The only way we can replicate that from our current squad is with Brophy at LB and Turley at RB.

Agree but there’s a difference between a full back who can attack and a winger who can defend. With Brophy you’re conceding some solidness at the back, which is fine, but only if you have decent enough cover. I’m not convinced by the rest of our back line right now, especially on the other side. Not sure we can afford to be weak defensively down our left and our right.

Also - am I still missing something about Wilko playing right wing? He’s useless there.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:01 am

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:34 am

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:48 am Interesting to see the number that feel Brophy is wasted at left back. You wouldn't say TAA and Robertson are wasted in liverpools 4-3-3. Looks like we're trying to set up similar with a midfield trio of cisse, clay and wright and JMD, Johnson, Sotirou attack. Obviously we're no where near liverpools level, but the importance of a quality full back has certainly increased in the last 20 years.

Agreed, with only one down the flank you need a full back who can do the offensive stuff too.

The only way we can replicate that from our current squad is with Brophy at LB and Turley at RB.

Agree but there’s a difference between a full back who can attack and a winger who can defend. With Brophy you’re conceding some solidness at the back, which is fine, but only if you have decent enough cover. I’m not convinced by the rest of our back line right now, especially on the other side. Not sure we can afford to be weak defensively down our left and our right.

But I’m suggesting Turley play there.

Turley, Happe and Widdowson are all strong. I don’t buy that Brophy is weak either. The more I think about it, the more I talk myself into this being our best line up from the current squad.

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:44 pm Looks to me like Ross will be sticking to 4-3-3:

GK: Vigouroux/Sargeant
RB: Judd/Ling
CB Turley/Coulson
CB: Happe/Ogie
LB: Brophy/Widdowson

CM: Wright/McAnuff
CDM: Cisse/Kyprianou
CM: Clay/Dayton

RW: Wilkinson/Sotiriou
ST: Angol/Johnson
LW: Maguire-Drew/Dennis

Can see Brophy staying at LB after get got better there as the season went on - Personally I think he is wasted a bit there, but he has his uses.

Sotiriou will likely have to work his way back into the team after coming back late to training.

Don't think Danny Johnson is suited to one up front myself, needs to be in a two, but he may have to lead the line on his own.

As I said, can see Ross sticking to 4-3-3 with the players we currently have. Still a centre half short and a striker as well it seems.

ST: Angol/Johnson

What does ST stand for - Stationary?

Striker!

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:09 am Striker!

I think I was right

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:44 pm Looks to me like Ross will be sticking to 4-3-3:

GK: Vigouroux/Sargeant
RB: Judd/Ling
CB Turley/Coulson
CB: Happe/Ogie
LB: Brophy/Widdowson

CM: Wright/McAnuff
CDM: Cisse/Kyprianou
CM: Clay/Dayton

RW: Wilkinson/Sotiriou
ST: Angol/Johnson
LW: Maguire-Drew/Dennis

Can see Brophy staying at LB after get got better there as the season went on - Personally I think he is wasted a bit there, but he has his uses.

Sotiriou will likely have to work his way back into the team after coming back late to training.

Don't think Danny Johnson is suited to one up front myself, needs to be in a two, but he may have to lead the line on his own.

As I said, can see Ross sticking to 4-3-3 with the players we currently have. Still a centre half short and a striker as well it seems.

Looking at that defence worries me. It’s not good enough, especially at RB

More I look at our strikers, I dont see how they play together.

Angol - seems to be a bit weak for this division and needs someone to do the dirty work for him...who?
Wilko - as mentioned, seems to want to be a winger now and isn't one. Not sure what he brings to the team atm.
Johnson - Haven't seen him play but seems like a bit of a poacher and needs support?
Sotiriou - Similar to Johnson. Hard worker and a bit of a poacher but needs someone else to help out.

I dont know how we get a good combo out of that lot. Individually I dont mind them but there's not enough goals in them.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:06 pm

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:44 pm Looks to me like Ross will be sticking to 4-3-3:

GK: Vigouroux/Sargeant
RB: Judd/Ling
CB Turley/Coulson
CB: Happe/Ogie
LB: Brophy/Widdowson

CM: Wright/McAnuff
CDM: Cisse/Kyprianou
CM: Clay/Dayton

RW: Wilkinson/Sotiriou
ST: Angol/Johnson
LW: Maguire-Drew/Dennis

Can see Brophy staying at LB after get got better there as the season went on - Personally I think he is wasted a bit there, but he has his uses.

Sotiriou will likely have to work his way back into the team after coming back late to training.

Don't think Danny Johnson is suited to one up front myself, needs to be in a two, but he may have to lead the line on his own.

As I said, can see Ross sticking to 4-3-3 with the players we currently have. Still a centre half short and a striker as well it seems.

Looking at that defence worries me. It’s not good enough, especially at RB

Well, don't look at that defence then.

Look at:

Vigaroux

Turley Happe Widdowson Brophy

with Cisse in front of them.

That is rock solid.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:10 pm More I look at our strikers, I dont see how they play together.

Angol - seems to be a bit weak for this division and needs someone to do the dirty work for him...who?
Wilko - as mentioned, seems to want to be a winger now and isn't one. Not sure what he brings to the team atm.
Johnson - Haven't seen him play but seems like a bit of a poacher and needs support?
Sotiriou - Similar to Johnson. Hard worker and a bit of a poacher but needs someone else to help out.

I dont know how we get a good combo out of that lot. Individually I dont mind them but there's not enough goals in them.

Prepared to cut Johnson some slack as he didn't get much game time after signing but from a squad building perspective, his transfer seems to make no sense. Embleton had settled upon a 4-3-3 and we signed another striker who, it would appear, needs a partner to be effective, alongside the other 3 strikers who need a partner to be effective. We don't have a forward can lead the line alone, despite 3/4ths of our strikers being signed within the last season. We are therefore cramming them into wing positions, where we have 4 players already. Isn't the point of a DOF to have a clear vision of how the squad will work and who needs to be brought in to realise that vision?

Our full back situation is also terrible. Ling and Judd clearly aren't good enough, Widdowson is just about OK at this level, but he has no real depth behind him, unless Ogie is expected to actually play this year. We should absolutely not be going into this season with Brophy as anything other than emergency cover at left back.

Hard to be optimistic about the coming season. So many square pegs in round holes, which is a damning indictment of our recruitment strategy.

Prepared to cut Johnson some slack as he didn't get much game time after signing but from a squad building perspective, his transfer seems to make no sense. Embleton had settled upon a 4-3-3 and we signed another striker who, it would appear, needs a partner to be effective, alongside the other 3 strikers who need a partner to be effective. We don't have a forward can lead the line alone, despite 3/4ths of our strikers being signed within the last season. We are therefore cramming them into wing positions, where we have 4 players already. Isn't the point of a DOF to have a clear vision of how the squad will work and who needs to be brought in to realise that vision?
=========================================================
Exactly where I am. We desperately need an Akinde or similar to make the most out of the other forwards we have. Without a big hold up guy who can link up with others, we will struggle to score goals. If we dont bring in someone like this, I will be very disappointed in our football management.

I think the Angol/Wilkinson part is the square peg round hole. I think realistically either needs to go to make space for something different. Although I think Angol is the better player he seems closer to Johnson and Sotiriou. That being said I wouldn't have really gone with Koroma and Bonne in the way we did last year, so maybe we can make it work. I could see each of them getting 10 goals, but I can't see any of them getting 20. I think we need one big goalscorer and then what we have.

DuvB wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:18 pm Prepared to cut Johnson some slack as he didn't get much game time after signing but from a squad building perspective, his transfer seems to make no sense. Embleton had settled upon a 4-3-3 and we signed another striker who, it would appear, needs a partner to be effective, alongside the other 3 strikers who need a partner to be effective. We don't have a forward can lead the line alone, despite 3/4ths of our strikers being signed within the last season. We are therefore cramming them into wing positions, where we have 4 players already. Isn't the point of a DOF to have a clear vision of how the squad will work and who needs to be brought in to realise that vision?
=========================================================
Exactly where I am. We desperately need an Akinde or similar to make the most out of the other forwards we have. Without a big hold up guy who can link up with others, we will struggle to score goals. If we dont bring in someone like this, I will be very disappointed in our football management.

You don’t need a ‘big hold up guy’. It’s not 1986 anymore.