Independent Leyton Orient Forum

faldO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 7:50 am

Celtient wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 9:58 pm Haven't watched anything live up til now, but just saw Beth Shriever in the BMX cycling. She is sensational

Of all the sports added recently, BMX is a great addition and very exciting, both the racing and the freestyle.

Agree about Shriever, who blew her opponents away in the heats, she seemed to just be able to pedal faster than the others, though there's obviously a lot more to it than that. I think there were better opponents in the other heats but she looks like a gold medal in the waiting and good luck to her.

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:57 am Shame the boxing is somewhat overshadowed by the row in the women's competition about boxers who have failed sex tests being allowed to compete.

Italy's Angela Carini called a stop to her fight after 45 seconds against Algeria's Imane Khelif, with a suspected broken nose.

Disgraceful from the IOC.

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:54 am This is getting ridiculous. The situation with Imane Khelif is not the same as the trans rights issue. This isn't some bloke that has decided to live his true self whilst wearing a mini skirt and putting on a bit of lippy, and is demanding that we all play along with the fantasy under fear of ostracization.

Imane Khelif was born with female genitalia and with a medical condition that results in an XY chromosomes. This person has not "transitioned". It's a subtle, but important difference. There's still a debate to be had as to whether a person with XY chromosomes should be competing in women's boxing, but that's a different matter.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:02 am Caster Semenya was a similar case wasnt it?

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:54 am This is getting ridiculous. The situation with Imane Khelif is not the same as the trans rights issue. This isn't some bloke that has decided to live his true self whilst wearing a mini skirt and putting on a bit of lippy, and is demanding that we all play along with the fantasy under fear of ostracization.

Imane Khelif was born with female genitalia and with a medical condition that results in an XY chromosomes. This person has not "transitioned". It's a subtle, but important difference. There's still a debate to be had as to whether a person with XY chromosomes should be competing in women's boxing, but that's a different matter.

Adz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 2:04 pm All the athletes in the Olympics are genetic freaks in one way or another, where do you draw the line? Phelps generated half the lactic acid of a normal person, should he have been banned? These tall basketballers and high jumpers should be banned, etc

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:54 am This is getting ridiculous. The situation with Imane Khelif is not the same as the trans rights issue. This isn't some bloke that has decided to live his true self whilst wearing a mini skirt and putting on a bit of lippy, and is demanding that we all play along with the fantasy under fear of ostracization.

Imane Khelif was born with female genitalia and with a medical condition that results in an XY chromosomes. This person has not "transitioned". It's a subtle, but important difference. There's still a debate to be had as to whether a person with XY chromosomes should be competing in women's boxing, but that's a different matter.

CEB2ElectricBoogaloo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 3:09 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:54 am This is getting ridiculous. The situation with Imane Khelif is not the same as the trans rights issue. This isn't some bloke that has decided to live his true self whilst wearing a mini skirt and putting on a bit of lippy, and is demanding that we all play along with the fantasy under fear of ostracization.

Imane Khelif was born with female genitalia and with a medical condition that results in an XY chromosomes. This person has not "transitioned". It's a subtle, but important difference. There's still a debate to be had as to whether a person with XY chromosomes should be competing in women's boxing, but that's a different matter.

This post is incorrect, but unfortunately representative of what a lot of people think about the events yesterday, due to poor quality reporting and low level of understanding of the specifics and even of what different people mean by the words they use.

Friend or faux wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:00 pm There is a multitude of sports going on in Paris. When I watch the Beeb, most of it seems to be a bunch of pundits chatting about it, rather than seeing the athletes in action.

CEB2ElectricBoogaloo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 2:30 pm I’ll start with an easy one

Adz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 2:04 pm All the athletes in the Olympics are genetic freaks in one way or another, where do you draw the line? Phelps generated half the lactic acid of a normal person, should he have been banned? These tall basketballers and high jumpers should be banned, etc

There is one genetic advantage that, across virtually all sporting disciplines, results in faster, stronger and taller athletes. This genetic advantage is called “being male”.

Because it’s generally considered a good idea to recognise the potential for sporting excellence in the half of the population who do not possess this advantage of “being male”, we segregate many sports by sex.

As a result of this sex segregation, we have access to the world records in every sporting event for the category of people with the genetic advantage of “being male” and the category of those who do not have that advantage.

And, I suspect you don’t need me to finish this point, but I will do anyway - if we didn’t segregate so that the half of the population (let’s call them “female”) without male advantage - then in almost no sporting discipline would a female person be anywhere near elite level competition, let alone near a world record.

Regarding Michael Phelps (who is mentioned constantly any time this subject comes up - it’s an old chestnut at this point) - you’re confusing “advantage” with “unfair advantage”.

Sport is in itself a measure of ability, ability which is achieved through a combination of physical traits, training and dedication.

Some people have physical traits that are perfectly fair - there’s nothing unfair about someone being tall - that nevertheless result in disappointment for most 5foot2 people who would quite like to play in the NBA. Meanwhile an NBA player who fancied being a jockey in the Grand National would find himself sh*t out of luck. Sport measures fair advantages. I don’t think many people believe that Phelps’s physical traits are unfairly attained, I certainly haven’t seen it argued outside of the context of people arguing for male people in female sports

o-no wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:26 am
I get your point that it's not an unfair advantage, but it appears that being freakishly tall and strong is a pre-requisite in many elite sports these days. Us short-arses can't all be jockies!