Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 4:29 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 3:57 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 2:08 pm Yeah , well there still won't be a dictatorship in America so relax .

Not even the mildest criticism of his clearly instated intentions to fix future elections then. It's almost as if you're being ever so slightly inconsistent.

That is if he even allows any future elections once he gets his hands on power, this is how Dictatorships start off.
The lessons of history, note how Adolf Hitler was first elected into power !

''On 5 March 1933, the Nazi Party won 44 per cent of the vote, which gave them 288 seats in the Reichstag. Hitler formed a coalition with the National Party (8 per cent). The Communist party won 81 seats.
The Enabling Act
23 March 1933
With the communist deputies banned and the SA intimidating all the remaining non-Nazi deputies, the Reichstag voted by the required two-thirds majority to give Hitler the right to make laws without the Reichstag's approval for four years.
Arguably this was the critical event during this period. It gave Hitler absolute power to make laws, which enabled him to destroy all opposition to his rule. This removed the Reichstag as a source of opposition.
Trade unions
On 2 May 1933, trade unions were abolished and their leaders arrested. Abolishing the trade unions allowed Hitler to destroy a group that might have opposed him. It also gave Hitler the opportunity to set up the German Labour Front (Deutsche Arbeitsfront – DAF), which gave him control over German workers.
Political parties
By 14 July 1933, Hitler had banned all political parties meaning the only party allowed to exist was the Nazi party. This made Germany a one-party state and destroyed democracy in the country. After this action, Germans could no longer get rid of Hitler in an election''

idontkn0 M wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:14 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 4:29 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 3:57 pm

Not even the mildest criticism of his clearly instated intentions to fix future elections then. It's almost as if you're being ever so slightly inconsistent.

That is if he even allows any future elections once he gets his hands on power, this is how Dictatorships start off.
The lessons of history, note how Adolf Hitler was first elected into power !

''On 5 March 1933, the Nazi Party won 44 per cent of the vote, which gave them 288 seats in the Reichstag. Hitler formed a coalition with the National Party (8 per cent). The Communist party won 81 seats.
The Enabling Act
23 March 1933
With the communist deputies banned and the SA intimidating all the remaining non-Nazi deputies, the Reichstag voted by the required two-thirds majority to give Hitler the right to make laws without the Reichstag's approval for four years.
Arguably this was the critical event during this period. It gave Hitler absolute power to make laws, which enabled him to destroy all opposition to his rule. This removed the Reichstag as a source of opposition.
Trade unions
On 2 May 1933, trade unions were abolished and their leaders arrested. Abolishing the trade unions allowed Hitler to destroy a group that might have opposed him. It also gave Hitler the opportunity to set up the German Labour Front (Deutsche Arbeitsfront – DAF), which gave him control over German workers.
Political parties
By 14 July 1933, Hitler had banned all political parties meaning the only party allowed to exist was the Nazi party. This made Germany a one-party state and destroyed democracy in the country. After this action, Germans could no longer get rid of Hitler in an election''

Please

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 9:35 am

idontkn0 M wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:14 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 4:29 pm

That is if he even allows any future elections once he gets his hands on power, this is how Dictatorships start off.
The lessons of history, note how Adolf Hitler was first elected into power !

''On 5 March 1933, the Nazi Party won 44 per cent of the vote, which gave them 288 seats in the Reichstag. Hitler formed a coalition with the National Party (8 per cent). The Communist party won 81 seats.
The Enabling Act
23 March 1933
With the communist deputies banned and the SA intimidating all the remaining non-Nazi deputies, the Reichstag voted by the required two-thirds majority to give Hitler the right to make laws without the Reichstag's approval for four years.
Arguably this was the critical event during this period. It gave Hitler absolute power to make laws, which enabled him to destroy all opposition to his rule. This removed the Reichstag as a source of opposition.
Trade unions
On 2 May 1933, trade unions were abolished and their leaders arrested. Abolishing the trade unions allowed Hitler to destroy a group that might have opposed him. It also gave Hitler the opportunity to set up the German Labour Front (Deutsche Arbeitsfront – DAF), which gave him control over German workers.
Political parties
By 14 July 1933, Hitler had banned all political parties meaning the only party allowed to exist was the Nazi party. This made Germany a one-party state and destroyed democracy in the country. After this action, Germans could no longer get rid of Hitler in an election''

Please

History tends to repeat itself.

Rubex Kube wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 8:59 pm

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 8:52 pm

Rubex Kube wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 8:47 pm

How weird is what?

Obviously you haven't been paying attention to the election if you haven't heard of weird

I haven't to be fair, seen headlines about couches & laughs but not much else. I'm intrigued now

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:03 am I do quite like this weird angle they are taking on. Pretty spot on

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:24 am History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.

In his famous quote, Karl Marx asserted that history has a tendency to repeat itself, and when it does, it does so initially as a tragedy, but later as a farce.

This profound statement encapsulates the cyclical nature of human events and societal patterns, highlighting the parallels between tragic occurrences in history and their subsequent, often absurd, reenactments.

At a straightforward level, Marx's quote emphasizes the repetitiveness of historical events. It suggests that the tragedies of the past serve as a warning sign, forewarning us about the potential repetition of similar misfortunes in the future.

By recognizing the patterns, we can learn from history's mistakes and avoid falling into the same pitfalls. This interpretation underscores the importance of studying the past and understanding the circumstances that led to tragic outcomes, as this knowledge can help societies progress and evolve.

However, to delve deeper into the significance of this quote, let us introduce an unexpected philosophical concept: the concept of eternal recurrence, popularized by the esteemed philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

According to Nietzsche's theory, the universe is in a perpetual state of repetition, with all events recurring infinitely. This radical notion challenges the conventional understanding of linear time and posits that every moment, both tragic and farcical, will transpire countless times throughout eternity.

When we intertwine Marx's quote with Nietzsche's concept of eternal recurrence, an intriguing parallel emerges. If history indeed repeats itself infinitely, then the notion of a tragedy preceding a farce assumes an intriguing significance.

The recurrence of history is a perpetual cycle, where tragedies are followed by farcical reiterations, only to repeat again ad infinitum. Thus, the tragedy-farce dichotomy can be seen as stages in an eternal loop, with each repetition of history marked by the transition from profound suffering to absurdity.

This interpretation delves into the philosophical implications of Marx's quote, presenting a captivating perspective on the nature of human existence and its cyclical patterns.

Through this lens, the tragedy-farce cycle becomes a reflection of the absurdity of life itself, the relentless repetition of events that lack ultimate meaning. It poses profound questions about the human condition and the nature of progress, challenging us to contemplate whether we are fated to endure an unending cycle of tragedy and absurdity.

Furthermore, this intersection of ideas provokes us to consider the role of agency and free will within the context of eternal recurrence. If history unfolds in an eternal loop, do we possess the capacity to alter its course, or are we bound to continually reenact the same tragedies and farces?

While this philosophical inquiry extends beyond the scope of Marx's quote alone, it highlights the interconnectedness of various theories and the potential for their synthesis to generate complex, thought-provoking ideas.In conclusion, Karl Marx's assertion that history repeats itself, first as tragedy and second as farce, carries profound implications that extend beyond surface-level analysis. It emphasizes the importance of understanding the patterns and lessons embedded in tragic events while also inviting us to explore philosophical concepts like eternal recurrence.

By considering the cyclical nature of history and its intersection with the absurdity of existence, we are compelled to reflect on the human condition and the significance of our actions within an infinite continuum. In this way, Marx's quote serves as a gateway to a deeper understanding of history and ourselves.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:23 am

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:03 am I do quite like this weird angle they are taking on. Pretty spot on

It is certainly cutting through but as serious political analysis its superficial nonsense.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:28 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:24 am History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.

In his famous quote, Karl Marx asserted that history has a tendency to repeat itself, and when it does, it does so initially as a tragedy, but later as a farce.

This profound statement encapsulates the cyclical nature of human events and societal patterns, highlighting the parallels between tragic occurrences in history and their subsequent, often absurd, reenactments.

At a straightforward level, Marx's quote emphasizes the repetitiveness of historical events. It suggests that the tragedies of the past serve as a warning sign, forewarning us about the potential repetition of similar misfortunes in the future.

By recognizing the patterns, we can learn from history's mistakes and avoid falling into the same pitfalls. This interpretation underscores the importance of studying the past and understanding the circumstances that led to tragic outcomes, as this knowledge can help societies progress and evolve.

However, to delve deeper into the significance of this quote, let us introduce an unexpected philosophical concept: the concept of eternal recurrence, popularized by the esteemed philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

According to Nietzsche's theory, the universe is in a perpetual state of repetition, with all events recurring infinitely. This radical notion challenges the conventional understanding of linear time and posits that every moment, both tragic and farcical, will transpire countless times throughout eternity.

When we intertwine Marx's quote with Nietzsche's concept of eternal recurrence, an intriguing parallel emerges. If history indeed repeats itself infinitely, then the notion of a tragedy preceding a farce assumes an intriguing significance.

The recurrence of history is a perpetual cycle, where tragedies are followed by farcical reiterations, only to repeat again ad infinitum. Thus, the tragedy-farce dichotomy can be seen as stages in an eternal loop, with each repetition of history marked by the transition from profound suffering to absurdity.

This interpretation delves into the philosophical implications of Marx's quote, presenting a captivating perspective on the nature of human existence and its cyclical patterns.

Through this lens, the tragedy-farce cycle becomes a reflection of the absurdity of life itself, the relentless repetition of events that lack ultimate meaning. It poses profound questions about the human condition and the nature of progress, challenging us to contemplate whether we are fated to endure an unending cycle of tragedy and absurdity.

Furthermore, this intersection of ideas provokes us to consider the role of agency and free will within the context of eternal recurrence. If history unfolds in an eternal loop, do we possess the capacity to alter its course, or are we bound to continually reenact the same tragedies and farces?

While this philosophical inquiry extends beyond the scope of Marx's quote alone, it highlights the interconnectedness of various theories and the potential for their synthesis to generate complex, thought-provoking ideas.In conclusion, Karl Marx's assertion that history repeats itself, first as tragedy and second as farce, carries profound implications that extend beyond surface-level analysis. It emphasizes the importance of understanding the patterns and lessons embedded in tragic events while also inviting us to explore philosophical concepts like eternal recurrence.

By considering the cyclical nature of history and its intersection with the absurdity of existence, we are compelled to reflect on the human condition and the significance of our actions within an infinite continuum. In this way, Marx's quote serves as a gateway to a deeper understanding of history and ourselves.

Did Stalin ever take any notice of the teachings of Karl Marx, seems not !

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:03 am I do quite like this weird angle they are taking on. Pretty spot on

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:41 am

Rubex Kube wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 8:59 pm

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 8:52 pm

Obviously you haven't been paying attention to the election if you haven't heard of weird

I haven't to be fair, seen headlines about couches & laughs but not much else. I'm intrigued now

A few examples of weird

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:29 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:23 am

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:03 am I do quite like this weird angle they are taking on. Pretty spot on

It is certainly cutting through but as serious political analysis its superficial nonsense.

Playing Trump at his own game

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:41 am

Rubex Kube wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 8:59 pm

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 8:52 pm

Obviously you haven't been paying attention to the election if you haven't heard of weird

I haven't to be fair, seen headlines about couches & laughs but not much else. I'm intrigued now

A few examples of weird

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 12:05 pm

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:41 am

Rubex Kube wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 8:59 pm

I haven't to be fair, seen headlines about couches & laughs but not much else. I'm intrigued now

A few examples of weird

Never fails to amaze me that people see the guy speak and see anything bother than a simpering moron. Polls do seem to be shifting quite quickly towards Harris (who gives me massive Carter one term in a messed up world vibes), so maybe there is some hope.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 9:56 am

Why are you so invested in the man?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:01 am

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 9:56 am

Why are you so invested in the man?

Because I think he stands for the people . The Democrats along with the Rino's only seem to care about their own power and the establishment . They are absolutely terrified of Trump so he must be doing something right . Anyway if you think the polls are right then you've got nothing to be concerned about

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:20 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:01 am

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 9:56 am

Why are you so invested in the man?

KO

Because I think he stands for the people . The Democrats along with the Rino's only seem to care about their own power and the establishment . They are absolutely terrified of Trump so he must be doing something right . Anyway if you think the polls are right then you've got nothing to be concerned about

Millionaire real estate baron stands for the people? Why? Because he's thick?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:25 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:20 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:01 am KO

Because I think he stands for the people . The Democrats along with the Rino's only seem to care about their own power and the establishment . They are absolutely terrified of Trump so he must be doing something right . Anyway if you think the polls are right then you've got nothing to be concerned about

Millionaire real estate baron stands for the people? Why? Because he's thick?

He can’t be that thick to be a successful real estate billionaire