Independent Leyton Orient Forum

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:25 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:55 am

Stan1972 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:36 am We have to face facts guys, El Miz will not be an Orient player in a few weeks.
We don’t have the funds/budget to sign him.
Be a huge loss to our team!

Unless Ipswich price him too high and no-one bites, best case scenario

What about the player himself . He's going to need to want to go . Can a player say" No thanks " ?

Yes. Tiny Cox said no to a transfer to Northampton, so the Italian sacked him, and he was unable to play for another league club for 4 months

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:45 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:25 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:55 am

Unless Ipswich price him too high and no-one bites, best case scenario

What about the player himself . He's going to need to want to go . Can a player say" No thanks " ?

Yes. Tiny Cox said no to a transfer to Northampton, so the Italian sacked him, and he was unable to play for another league club for 4 months

He was our player though.
El Mizouni belongs to Ipswich.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:45 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:25 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:55 am

Unless Ipswich price him too high and no-one bites, best case scenario

What about the player himself . He's going to need to want to go . Can a player say" No thanks " ?

Yes. Tiny Cox said no to a transfer to Northampton, so the Italian sacked him, and he was unable to play for another league club for 4 months

In the above case of Cox being sacked by the Italian, I would presume that his remaining contract had to be paid up in full ?

Joe315 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:46 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:45 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:25 pm

What about the player himself . He's going to need to want to go . Can a player say" No thanks " ?

Yes. Tiny Cox said no to a transfer to Northampton, so the Italian sacked him, and he was unable to play for another league club for 4 months

He was our player though.
El Mizouni belongs to Ipswich.

Plus you also have to remember what type of character Beelzebub was

Did anyone that was at the game notice that El Miz seemed visibly moved at the end of the game. I'd go as far as to say he was crying. And both Prats & Omar put their arm around his shoulder and gave him what I'd call a hug. I hope that doesn't mean he's just played his last game for us. He would be missed if he's on his way elsewhere.

Ah f*** no.

Had arguably his best game for us today, was immense.

Joe315 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 7:18 am

FrankOFile wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:40 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:51 pm

You make out as though Islam is on its own in this regard.

All the big religions are down on man on man action, aren’t they?

Maybe, but not all want to jail them. Get real.

Judaism says those involved are threatened with capital punishment.

Christianity isn't to keen either.

Evidence or just scurrilous claptrap?

EliotNes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:59 pm Did anyone that was at the game notice that El Miz seemed visibly moved at the end of the game. I'd go as far as to say he was crying. And both Prats & Omar put their arm around his shoulder and gave him what I'd call a hug. I hope that doesn't mean he's just played his last game for us. He would be missed if he's on his way elsewhere.

I hope that isn't the case because he would be a big miss .

Shouldn't lose sight of the fact that his rejoining on loan was an unexpected bonus. Would be a big loss but one the club would have been expecting at some point and he's played a key part of us getting into a position where we should be ok to survive the season without him.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:20 am Shouldn't lose sight of the fact that his rejoining on loan was an unexpected bonus. Would be a big loss but one the club would have been expecting at some point and he's played a key part of us getting into a position where we should be ok to survive the season without him.

If the rumours are true and Moncs and El-Miz leave we need to replace EL-Miz with somebody equally as good . Obviously that isn't going to be easy but with the savings on Moncs and El-Miz's wages it might be doable.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:39 am

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:20 am Shouldn't lose sight of the fact that his rejoining on loan was an unexpected bonus. Would be a big loss but one the club would have been expecting at some point and he's played a key part of us getting into a position where we should be ok to survive the season without him.

If the rumours are true and Moncs and El-Miz leave we need to replace EL-Miz with somebody equally as good . Obviously that isn't going to be easy but with the savings on Moncs and El-Miz's wages it might be doable.

The easiest way to solve this potential problem is make El Miz an offer he can't refuse.

He clearly loves it here. Make it happen.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:02 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:39 am

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:20 am Shouldn't lose sight of the fact that his rejoining on loan was an unexpected bonus. Would be a big loss but one the club would have been expecting at some point and he's played a key part of us getting into a position where we should be ok to survive the season without him.

If the rumours are true and Moncs and El-Miz leave we need to replace EL-Miz with somebody equally as good . Obviously that isn't going to be easy but with the savings on Moncs and El-Miz's wages it might be doable.

The easiest way to solve this potential problem is make El Miz an offer he can't refuse.

He clearly loves it here. Make it happen.

It's down to Ipswich though they are the ones in control of the situation. If Moncur goes we could make Idris a decent offer using Moncurs wage, but Ipswich hold all the aces about six clubs want him and we would probably need to find £200-250k to stand a chance of getting him.

Yes and no. He doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to.

If we're talking about £200-£250k to sign him, we should absolutely do it. As said, if the rumours are true and we found £300k to sign Moncur from Hull, we should be prepared to more than match that.

And yes, we should be prepared to make him the highest paid player in the squad. I'd hope that would be enough to compete with whatever the big L1 clubs like Bolton or Derby or whoever are prepared to offer.

The only way we should be losing out is a Championship club show interest.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:35 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:02 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:39 am

If the rumours are true and Moncs and El-Miz leave we need to replace EL-Miz with somebody equally as good . Obviously that isn't going to be easy but with the savings on Moncs and El-Miz's wages it might be doable.

The easiest way to solve this potential problem is make El Miz an offer he can't refuse.

He clearly loves it here. Make it happen.

It's down to Ipswich though they are the ones in control of the situation. If Moncur goes we could make Idris a decent offer using Moncurs wage, but Ipswich hold all the aces about six clubs want him and we would probably need to find £200-250k to stand a chance of getting him.

I know that's a lot of money but iIdris would exactly be worth it if we could afford it .

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:01 am Yes and no. He doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to.

If we're talking about £200-£250k to sign him, we should absolutely do it. As said, if the rumours are true and we found £300k to sign Moncur from Hull, we should be prepared to more than match that.

And yes, we should be prepared to make him the highest paid player in the squad. I'd hope that would be enough to compete with whatever the big L1 clubs like Bolton or Derby or whoever are prepared to offer.

The only way we should be losing out is a Championship club show interest.

Feels a bit of a preemptive ffs Ling. Bolton and Derby have budgets 2-3x of ours and are much better teams. If he's going to one of them he's going to a real promotion contender and to play with more talented team mates in bigger stadiums, better facilities and higher expectations. Let's be realistic about about where we are as a club.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:01 am Yes and no. He doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to.

If we're talking about £200-£250k to sign him, we should absolutely do it. As said, if the rumours are true and we found £300k to sign Moncur from Hull, we should be prepared to more than match that.

And yes, we should be prepared to make him the highest paid player in the squad. I'd hope that would be enough to compete with whatever the big L1 clubs like Bolton or Derby or whoever are prepared to offer.

The only way we should be losing out is a Championship club show interest.

He isn't going turn down the chance of a move with regular football and probably more money at potentially a bigger club than ours. Mistadobolina correctly states in the post above Derby and Bolton who are both interested in Idris are in our Division and have massive budgets compared to us, we have to be realistic - I think he will go maybe in this window if not definitely the summer. We tried to buy him last summer but our offer was nowhere near what they value him at. I suppose you are looking at T&T to stump up the money or the multi millionaire investors you like to bang on about but as much as you would like to believe it they don't have a bottomless money pit and our budget is all but spent, I would love it if he could be signed but however much he loves it here not sure we have the money.

Feels a bit of a preemptive ffs Ling. Bolton and Derby have budgets 2-3x of ours and are much better teams. If he's going to one of them he's going to a real promotion contender and to play with more talented team mates in bigger stadiums, better facilities and higher expectations. Let's be realistic about about where we are as a club.

And yet we are competing against these teams. If the players were this defeatist, we might as well call the whole thing off!

Give it to Jabo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:26 am Feels a bit of a preemptive ffs Ling. Bolton and Derby have budgets 2-3x of ours and are much better teams. If he's going to one of them he's going to a real promotion contender and to play with more talented team mates in bigger stadiums, better facilities and higher expectations. Let's be realistic about about where we are as a club.

And yet we are competing against these teams. If the players were this defeatist, we might as well call the whole thing off!

I don't think he's being defeatist GITJ, but he is being realistic - Off the field and financially we are up against it. Those teams (and others) can pay bigger fees and pay higher wages.

Recognising that Mizouni can get paid more to play better football at bigger clubs isn't defeatism. We aren't going to get him through positive vibes. Our biggest hope would be that he values what Wellens is doing for him enough that he'd turn down a better contract elsewhere. But it's a bit ridiculous to start implying that the club has failed if we don't keep him. We did well to get him back here at all after last season, bigger clubs were in for him.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:10 am
Feels a bit of a preemptive ffs Ling. Bolton and Derby have budgets 2-3x of ours and are much better teams. If he's going to one of them he's going to a real promotion contender and to play with more talented team mates in bigger stadiums, better facilities and higher expectations. Let's be realistic about about where we are as a club.

This won't be on Ling - this will be on the owners not making funds available.

Bolton/Derby having 2 or 3 times our budget doesn't mean each of their players are being paid 2 or 3 times what our players are. They will have a few star men on big bucks no doubt, but their `budget goes on greater depth - they don't have to rely on cheap squad fillers such as Ruel and Sweeney to make the books 'balance'.

I also reject the notion they're much better teams. For 60 minutes at Bolton and 90 at Portsmouth we showed what we're about with a (nearly) full squad available.

As I said, if a Championship side come knocking and can offer him regular football (not a given) at that level, then we can't compete. Otherwise, we should be.

I don’t think we will sign him but the only way we could persuade him ( if we offered enough)is to offer a 3 year deal with clauses ?

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:35 am Recognising that Mizouni can get paid more to play better football at bigger clubs isn't defeatism.

Again, I reject that all these teams play better football than us.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:20 am Shouldn't lose sight of the fact that his rejoining on loan was an unexpected bonus. Would be a big loss but one the club would have been expecting at some point and he's played a key part of us getting into a position where we should be ok to survive the season without him.

That's the way I'm looking at it, we didn't realistically expect him to come back even with serenading him with "we want you to stay" so if it turns out we got an extra half a season for free I'll take that.

If he does go it's vital we get a replacement in, would only leave us with Brown and Pratley as CDMs with the latter needing minutes to be carefully managed to get the best out of him. Sanders is looking good in the CAM role and Galbraith is no enforcer, doing bizarrely well at RB though.

Fee wise wouldn't be surprised at 300k upwards being Ipswich's price. If that were true it'd have to be a gift purchase by one of the investors to get past FFP as I understand it?

FrankOFile wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:06 am

Joe315 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 7:18 am

FrankOFile wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:40 am

Maybe, but not all want to jail them. Get real.

Judaism says those involved are threatened with capital punishment.

Christianity isn't to keen either.

Evidence or just scurrilous claptrap?

Among the sexual perversions proscribed as criminal offenses in the moral code of the Torah are homosexual relations between males (Lev. 18:22). Both offending parties are threatened with capital punishment (Lev. 20:13)

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/homosexuality

Israels religion.

Evidence enough ?

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:01 am Yes and no. He doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to.

If we're talking about £200-£250k to sign him, we should absolutely do it. As said, if the rumours are true and we found £300k to sign Moncur from Hull, we should be prepared to more than match that.

And yes, we should be prepared to make him the highest paid player in the squad. I'd hope that would be enough to compete with whatever the big L1 clubs like Bolton or Derby or whoever are prepared to offer.

The only way we should be losing out is a Championship club show interest.

IIRC we ‘found’ the £300k to sign Moncur from Hull by using the fee we got from Peterborough for Kyprianou.