Independent Leyton Orient Forum

MasterDirkTurk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:04 pm Not surprised by this to be honest. I have heard we actually had lots of bids for him that were accepted but he turned them all day. That's his choice seeing as he is under contract so I have no problem with that.

Where was this heard from? If anything, it makes less sense to reject multiyear offers than for him to sit on our bench for a year with limited playing time and then to choose to look for a new deal next year.

Buddy Manucci wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:41 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:46 pm

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:04 pm

Cheap option.
It’s the Orient way.
I think people need to get real, the owners are no different to all the others we have had prior FB.
They will continue to keep the club ticking over but don’t expect any real ambition.
The wage bill will probably be top half, no different to what it was under Barry.

Something feels like it's changed over summer. The ambition and winning attitude appears to have evaporated and it's all money being diverted off elsewhere. Along with youth players being made out to be equivalent to signings it feels very Hearn-esque again.

We have paid money for two strikers. That seems like good ambition to me.

Also Travis quite clearly and openly said towards the end of the season that he had agreed a playing salary budget for 2019/20 with management to cover a) the team playing in League Two and b) the team playing in the National League

I highly doubt we get to 12 July (only 2-3 months later) and suddenly the budget is cut. Just wouldn't happen with a businessman like Travis at the helm who has properly budgeted for this year and with us bringing in transfer fees for two players. More likely that the football management side see Alabi plus the spare salary space as more of an asset at present than a forward they could bring in and less salary budget space because they can't yet move Alabi out. Don't agree with this at all, but ludicrous to blame it on money - that's the hard of thinking lashing out because they don't have the brainpower to think things through.

I recall that at the AGM the budgeted loss this season was £1.1m.

I don't think the goalposts have shifted, but I do think there is money in reserve should Ross not work out. In the worst case scenario we will be in relegation trouble but we then will have the funds to go for a few players.

Don't think there is too much to read into Alabi staying, I think it is a function of not being able to get rid of him and his good attitude. Also having a guy like this on your side is handy if things come to fisticuffs.

Buddy Manucci wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:41 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:46 pm

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:04 pm

Cheap option.
It’s the Orient way.
I think people need to get real, the owners are no different to all the others we have had prior FB.
They will continue to keep the club ticking over but don’t expect any real ambition.
The wage bill will probably be top half, no different to what it was under Barry.

Something feels like it's changed over summer. The ambition and winning attitude appears to have evaporated and it's all money being diverted off elsewhere. Along with youth players being made out to be equivalent to signings it feels very Hearn-esque again.

We have paid money for two strikers. That seems like good ambition to me.

Nominal amounts in both cases, in one case for an out of favour player. Neither have added strength to the squad, just replacing what we've sold off.

Still waiting for the strength in depth to challenge the first XI. People seem to have selective memories of last season and how we struggled when the main players were out. Got away with it in the tinpot NL, won't get away with it in L2.

If we sign a quality striker before August to challenge Angol and Wilkinson then that's ambition. Same for CM to cover / challenge Clay.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:58 pm I feel sorry for him because he works hard and makes good runs but is never picked out where he could potentially do any damage. He’s not someone to be running into channels to hold up the ball like Bonne did. How many clear cut chances did he get last season?i don’t remember many. Hopefully they can utilise his strengths, much like Gorman. Orient could be very one dimensional last year.

There’s a player in there, hopefully we’ll see him come good. I very much doubt it though.

This is a fair point, he wasn't missing sitters last season- I can't really remember a miss by him to be honest.

I like the guy, but he's clearly not good enough for this level. I don't doubt that he has the ability to make an impact on a few games, though.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:10 pm

MasterDirkTurk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:04 pm Not surprised by this to be honest. I have heard we actually had lots of bids for him that were accepted but he turned them all day. That's his choice seeing as he is under contract so I have no problem with that.

Where was this heard from? If anything, it makes less sense to reject multiyear offers than for him to sit on our bench for a year with limited playing time and then to choose to look for a new deal next year.

We accepted several offers for him but he said no. Heard from someone close to the club. Put it this way, say he is on £1,000 a week here and he had offers from Maidstone and Torquay for £500 a week what would you do?

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:38 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:58 pm I feel sorry for him because he works hard and makes good runs but is never picked out where he could potentially do any damage. He’s not someone to be running into channels to hold up the ball like Bonne did. How many clear cut chances did he get last season?i don’t remember many. Hopefully they can utilise his strengths, much like Gorman. Orient could be very one dimensional last year.

There’s a player in there, hopefully we’ll see him come good. I very much doubt it though.

This is a fair point, he wasn't missing sitters last season- I can't really remember a miss by him to be honest.

I like the guy, but he's clearly not good enough for this level. I don't doubt that he has the ability to make an impact on a few games, though.

A fair few one on ones where he scuffed the ball straight at the keeper. Plenty of bluster and effort but not much composure. Whether someone can coach that into him is another question but JE clearly didn't seem to think so.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:34 pm I recall that at the AGM the budgeted loss this season was £1.1m.

I don't think the goalposts have shifted, but I do think there is money in reserve should Ross not work out. In the worst case scenario we will be in relegation trouble but we then will have the funds to go for a few players.

Don't think there is too much to read into Alabi staying, I think it is a function of not being able to get rid of him and his good attitude. Also having a guy like this on your side is handy if things come to fisticuffs.

Yep - the fact it's budget for the season is also important. It's not that we are not signing any players, it's just that we're not signing any players yet.

As the season goes on the spare salary budget becomes worth more. We can perhaps sign three decent/good players now. Or we can give others a chance, see how things pan out and then sign three very good players in January (bearing in mind we know we lose Harrold, Alabi and others from the wagebill next summer).

(for the record I still think I'd prefer two new signings now, keep some spare salary space for flexibility for January and then look to move Harrold and Alabi out then if not sooner.

I too am very disappointed to read that Alabi has been removed from the transfer list, but I don't think that means he will be first choice. I think he'll probably be fourth choice striker, which isn't that bad.

What I am surprised about is the doom and gloom on this thread as a result of this one piece of news. This is all before a ball has even been kicked in anger. Can we forget so quickly the optimism at the end of last season? Obviously Justin's passing has taken much of the gloss off and we've lost Bonne and Koroma, but equally we have replaced both of them with strikers and Embleton is an unknown quantity (at least he hasn't been sacked countless times for failing).

Perhaps we should wait until the first few games before agreeing that we are doomed to relegation.

Mind you I do think we're doomed!!!!!

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:38 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:58 pm I feel sorry for him because he works hard and makes good runs but is never picked out where he could potentially do any damage. He’s not someone to be running into channels to hold up the ball like Bonne did. How many clear cut chances did he get last season?i don’t remember many. Hopefully they can utilise his strengths, much like Gorman. Orient could be very one dimensional last year.

There’s a player in there, hopefully we’ll see him come good. I very much doubt it though.

This is a fair point, he wasn't missing sitters last season- I can't really remember a miss by him to be honest.

I like the guy, but he's clearly not good enough for this level. I don't doubt that he has the ability to make an impact on a few games, though.

Not kicked a ball yet at this level but still not good enough

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:58 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:38 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:58 pm I feel sorry for him because he works hard and makes good runs but is never picked out where he could potentially do any damage. He’s not someone to be running into channels to hold up the ball like Bonne did. How many clear cut chances did he get last season?i don’t remember many. Hopefully they can utilise his strengths, much like Gorman. Orient could be very one dimensional last year.

There’s a player in there, hopefully we’ll see him come good. I very much doubt it though.

This is a fair point, he wasn't missing sitters last season- I can't really remember a miss by him to be honest.

I like the guy, but he's clearly not good enough for this level. I don't doubt that he has the ability to make an impact on a few games, though.

Not kicked a ball yet at this level but still not good enough

You clearly don't follow my posts very closely, particularly on the old board. I am one of the first to defend Orient players, and I spent a lot of time defending Alabi this season.

Unfortunately, James is never going to be a great player at this level. I have no doubt that as a 4th or 5th choice striker he can have an impact on games and win us points, but that I think will be the extent of it.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:34 pm I recall that at the AGM the budgeted loss this season was £1.1m.

I don't think the goalposts have shifted, but I do think there is money in reserve should Ross not work out. In the worst case scenario we will be in relegation trouble but we then will have the funds to go for a few players.

Don't think there is too much to read into Alabi staying, I think it is a function of not being able to get rid of him and his good attitude. Also having a guy like this on your side is handy if things come to fisticuffs.

Yeah - agree with this but not sure about the fisticuffs though - for a big man he’s a bit lightweight.

Dalby joins Watford on a 2 year deal.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:43 pm

eagwgw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:34 pm I recall that at the AGM the budgeted loss this season was £1.1m.

I don't think the goalposts have shifted, but I do think there is money in reserve should Ross not work out. In the worst case scenario we will be in relegation trouble but we then will have the funds to go for a few players.

Don't think there is too much to read into Alabi staying, I think it is a function of not being able to get rid of him and his good attitude. Also having a guy like this on your side is handy if things come to fisticuffs.

Yep - the fact it's budget for the season is also important. It's not that we are not signing any players, it's just that we're not signing any players yet.

As the season goes on the spare salary budget becomes worth more. We can perhaps sign three decent/good players now. Or we can give others a chance, see how things pan out and then sign three very good players in January (bearing in mind we know we lose Harrold, Alabi and others from the wagebill next summer).

(for the record I still think I'd prefer two new signings now, keep some spare salary space for flexibility for January and then look to move Harrold and Alabi out then if not sooner.

Except of course you don't get good players in January. It is a rubbish time to get players in.

HARVEY T DENTON wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:47 pm Dalby joins Watford on a 2 year deal.

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... -1-9874688

Assume we had a sell on and will get something from this. Annoying though, cos i assume that sell on now ends and we wont get anything if he establishes himself and goes for mega bucks down the line.

bobo66 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:51 pm I too am very disappointed to read that Alabi has been removed from the transfer list, but I don't think that means he will be first choice. I think he'll probably be fourth choice striker, which isn't that bad.

What I am surprised about is the doom and gloom on this thread as a result of this one piece of news. This is all before a ball has even been kicked in anger. Can we forget so quickly the optimism at the end of last season? Obviously Justin's passing has taken much of the gloss off and we've lost Bonne and Koroma, but equally we have replaced both of them with strikers and Embleton is an unknown quantity (at least he hasn't been sacked countless times for failing).

Perhaps we should wait until the first few games before agreeing that we are doomed to relegation.

Mind you I do think we're doomed!!!!!

Agree. Thing is. All clubs sign players. All clubs go into the season fairly confident. My mate is a millwall fan and they are making some big signings. Millwall. Bodvarson and Mahoney from Bournemouth. We have just found a spot for Alabi.

bobo66 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:51 pm I too am very disappointed to read that Alabi has been removed from the transfer list, but I don't think that means he will be first choice. I think he'll probably be fourth choice striker, which isn't that bad.

What I am surprised about is the doom and gloom on this thread as a result of this one piece of news. This is all before a ball has even been kicked in anger. Can we forget so quickly the optimism at the end of last season? Obviously Justin's passing has taken much of the gloss off and we've lost Bonne and Koroma, but equally we have replaced both of them with strikers and Embleton is an unknown quantity (at least he hasn't been sacked countless times for failing).

Perhaps we should wait until the first few games before agreeing that we are doomed to relegation.

Mind you I do think we're doomed!!!!!

After the loss of JE the club really needed some good news to lift spirits a bit... instead we sold Bonne and Koroma. Had Angol and / or Wilkinson been coming in alongside those two it would've looked a lot more positive. As it's stands we're barely covering what we had last season and that's why there's disappointment in some quarters. Alabi looking like the 4th striker rather than someone new coming in just takes the biscuit at the moment, we'll see if he's back in 5th choice again by August but I doubt it somehow.

Still less than convinced by the whole interim situation too, don't think that did the new management team any favours as it doesn't exactly project confidence in their abilities.

Wright is a decent signing, proven for this level and above, happy with him replacing Lee. Need to replace the Lawless slot with a combative player so we don't rely solely on Clay though.

Agree with Max B Gold. You wont get 2/3 quality signings later in the year if your near the bottom of div2. Players wont risk dropping into conference football unless you pay them top dollar wages with a release clause if relegated. Also by then the whole squad will be short on confidence. If your looking for a Peter Kitchen type hero, find him and sign him now, Not christmas. Lets be positive now while the club has a good vibe, all things considered ( Jus ).

gshaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:55 pm

bobo66 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:51 pm I too am very disappointed to read that Alabi has been removed from the transfer list, but I don't think that means he will be first choice. I think he'll probably be fourth choice striker, which isn't that bad.

What I am surprised about is the doom and gloom on this thread as a result of this one piece of news. This is all before a ball has even been kicked in anger. Can we forget so quickly the optimism at the end of last season? Obviously Justin's passing has taken much of the gloss off and we've lost Bonne and Koroma, but equally we have replaced both of them with strikers and Embleton is an unknown quantity (at least he hasn't been sacked countless times for failing).

Perhaps we should wait until the first few games before agreeing that we are doomed to relegation.

Mind you I do think we're doomed!!!!!

After the loss of JE the club really needed some good news to lift spirits a bit... instead we sold Bonne and Koroma. Had Angol and / or Wilkinson been coming in alongside those two it would've looked a lot more positive. As it's stands we're barely covering what we had last season and that's why there's disappointment in some quarters. Alabi looking like the 4th striker rather than someone new coming in just takes the biscuit at the moment, we'll see if he's back in 5th choice again by August but I doubt it somehow.

Still less than convinced by the whole interim situation too, don't think that did the new management team any favours as it doesn't exactly project confidence in their abilities.

Wright is a decent signing, proven for this level and above, happy with him replacing Lee. Need to replace the Lawless slot with a combative player so we don't rely solely on Clay though.

Unfortunately the club had no choice in selling Bonne and Koroma.
They both had Release clauses and wouldn’t have extended their contracts if they weren’t included.
Let’s give Angol, Wilkinson and even Alabi a chance to see what they can do.
I think if we are struggling in Sept / Oct hopefully we could look at a loan signing. I reckon some of the budget will be held back just in case.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:56 pm

HARVEY T DENTON wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:47 pm Dalby joins Watford on a 2 year deal.

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... -1-9874688

Assume we had a sell on and will get something from this. Annoying though, cos i assume that sell on now ends and we wont get anything if he establishes himself and goes for mega bucks down the line.

All depends on what terms were agreed as part of his sale to Leeds. It's quite possible we will still receive fees in future if he is resold for profit.

We've had worse strikers than Alabi, and he gives everything. I doubt we would be making this decision now, with six-seven weeks to the transfer window, if there hadn't been a genuine change of heart about him. I think we do need a central midfielder.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:11 am Take it this means no on else is coming in.

It's going to be a long old season.

My goodness you are so right.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:46 pm

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:11 am Take it this means no on else is coming in.

It's going to be a long old season.

My goodness you are so right.

Possibly. Then again, I seem to remember a lot of people on here saying the same thing about last season because we had basically the same squad as the previous year. Last season didn't end too badly, as I recall.
Personally, I've liked watching Alabi, even though he hasn't scored as many as he probably should have, and there is no doubt that he seems to be very popular within the squad. One thing that Justin was pretty hot on was building a squad that was bigger than the sum of its parts. I'm pleased that Ross appears to be carrying that on, albeit apparently going against Justin's thoughts on the player in question (which arguably, makes him his own man).

I'm pleased for Alabi and I hope he does well. For the record, I think he WILL do well.
And before anyone asks, I don't really know why - It's just a feeling in the same way that I don't know why I thought Bonne would do OK when plenty dismissed him as a third rate reject when we signed him.

Anyway, I'm prepared to give him and the team a chance.
We can see who is right at the end of the season.

I can not believe that one single person who has watched Alabi play is happy with this news, much less the management team. This is the same James Alabi who wasn't good enough for Tranmere, nor for Leyton Orient... in the division below. He had one good game (v Barnet) and the rest was like watching an attacking version of Clayton Fortune.

Question for those who are happy with this, what qualities from him have been suggestive of being able to handle league football?

Mr. Peanutbutter wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:33 pm I can not believe that one single person who has watched Alabi play is happy with this news, much less the management team. This is the same James Alabi who wasn't good enough for Tranmere, nor for Leyton Orient... in the division below. He had one good game (v Barnet) and the rest was like watching an attacking version of Clayton Fortune.

Question for those who are happy with this, what qualities from him have been suggestive of being able to handle league football?

New fox in the box and he can spell EFL