Independent Leyton Orient Forum

StillSpike wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 12:23 pm And - are the flats at the corners of Brisbane Road a similar risk ?

Yes.

It's hard to calculate the risk properly, as the previous and current government have resisted calls for a register (they're terrified of 'knowing' the extent of this crisis). But it's estimated that, when properly inspected, anywhere between 50% and 90% of blocks have design and/or construction defects requiring remediation.

So, at best, you can calculate your chances of being killed or bankrupted on the toss of a coin.

Wow ! That's pretty terrifying. Glad I rent, and in a 200 year old cottage, and in Scotland.

All I've got to worry about right now is the storm bringing down any of the surrounding woodland through my roof (although assuming I survive it'll be the landlord's worry, really)

If I win the lottery, I'll resist the temptation of buying a pied-a-terre at Brisbane Road, then

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 12:29 pm
Poor quality workmanship and design and construction defects. They're rife. And, unless you're lucky to have a house builder with a conscience, you'll need very deep pockets and be willing to spend many years litigating against them, if they're reluctant to remediate to an appropriate standard.

You also have to factor in that many defects can take years to emerge, by which time you'll find the housebuilder built the estate through a SPV which will have since ceased trading, so you're proper f*cked.

Absolutely the second point - pretty standard practice for the company that built them to have long disappeared.

Could we go after the directors/owners who are sitting on the profits retrospectively?

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 12:45 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 12:29 pm
Poor quality workmanship and design and construction defects. They're rife. And, unless you're lucky to have a house builder with a conscience, you'll need very deep pockets and be willing to spend many years litigating against them, if they're reluctant to remediate to an appropriate standard.

You also have to factor in that many defects can take years to emerge, by which time you'll find the housebuilder built the estate through a SPV which will have since ceased trading, so you're proper f*cked.

Absolutely the second point - pretty standard practice for the company that built them to have long disappeared.

Could we go after the directors/owners who are sitting on the profits retrospectively?

Unlikely. The liabilities will have been limited to the company only. There's plenty of stories of new builds reaching the end of any NHBC warranty (not that those are any good) and being riddled with structural defects that owners are left with.

As above from Dunners, blocks are a ticking time-bomb. Doesn't seem to cross anyone's mind that over say an 80 year lifespan, these will need massive expenditure to maintain. By which time, most of the developers will have long f*cked off into the sunset.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 12:45 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 12:29 pm
Poor quality workmanship and design and construction defects. They're rife. And, unless you're lucky to have a house builder with a conscience, you'll need very deep pockets and be willing to spend many years litigating against them, if they're reluctant to remediate to an appropriate standard.

You also have to factor in that many defects can take years to emerge, by which time you'll find the housebuilder built the estate through a SPV which will have since ceased trading, so you're proper f*cked.

Absolutely the second point - pretty standard practice for the company that built them to have long disappeared.

Could we go after the directors/owners who are sitting on the profits retrospectively?

It depends, but in most cases you cannot due to existing limitations to liability. An exemption is for buildings over 18m in height, which was either constructed after 28 June 1992 but before 27 June 2022 or if the defect was created by works carried out in that time. In this scenario, the Building Safety Act 2022 may provide grounds to recover costs from a directors personal estate or from other companies that they are/were a director of.

However, this will still be a very long and drawn out process, which they will defend rigorously, during which time your flat will be unsellable. And the building's insurance provider will increase the premiums by a lot (I've seen some cases where individual flat owners are having to pay £5k each a year), due to the recognised increased risk until the remediation work is completed.

Admin wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 12:52 pm
As above from Dunners, blocks are a ticking time-bomb. Doesn't seem to cross anyone's mind that over say an 80 year lifespan, these will need massive expenditure to maintain. By which time, most of the developers will have long f*cked off into the sunset.

If they were all built to a decent standard, they would still be a ticking time-bomb, due to the unfunded life-cycle costs.

If they are not built to a decent standard (which they're not), then they're a ticking nuclear bomb.

We're in one that's only 6 years old and there's already signs of a significant damp problem affecting the block, purely down to sh*tty workmanship. Builders are - shock! horror! - dragging their feet and trying to get past the 10 year warranty (for whatever use that is) so they can walk away without forking our for the, likely to be, significant remedial work. Not too bad at our end and turnover still pretty high so hopefully we can skiddadle before it becomes borderline unsellable.

You need to start assessing your options and risks quickly. If it was me, I'd be seeking to exit yesterday. Mortgageability can disappear overnight for blighted blocks.

I'm dealing with many households who have become trapped with unsellable flats, and witness up close the devastating impact it has on their lives, relationships and health.

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:55 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:04 pm

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 7:30 pm

Rubbish.
Bezos has killed the High St. No more a Nation of Shop keepers employing millions. Just Billionaires profiteering

Again a different argument. But I agree, Bezos has help destroy a number of low paid high street jobs, along with many other stores too replacing expensive to run buildings with online options. Which of course themselves create different types of job opportunities. Businesses can trade without massive rates accompanied with huge car parking charges.

But the point being investment, however it comes along, creates jobs and we need to encourage investors not push them away. The rich are investors and should be welcomed and encouraged not despised and pushed away.

A different argument on the same thread under the banner of Labour.
Yet so little comment from you on the Toryscum watch thread over the last 14 years.
You sir have a very small mind & that probably isn't the only small thing about you

Judging by your comments I’ll not lose any sleep over your pitiful points. Grow up!

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:11 pm We're in one that's only 6 years old and there's already signs of a significant damp problem affecting the block, purely down to sh*tty workmanship. Builders are - shock! horror! - dragging their feet and trying to get past the 10 year warranty (for whatever use that is) so they can walk away without forking our for the, likely to be, significant remedial work. Not too bad at our end and turnover still pretty high so hopefully we can skiddadle before it becomes borderline unsellable.

A sad reflection on the drop in building standards and lack of regulation enforcement. I vowed many years ago to buy ‘old’ after looking at new builds. My last 2 houses 1930’s built and whilst age brings its own problems and requires maintenance, like exterior wood, and new windows, they are built to a high standard. Alas your story is not the only one I’ve heard. Good luck!

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:25 pm You need to start assessing your options and risks quickly. If it was me, I'd be seeking to exit yesterday. Mortgageability can disappear overnight for blighted blocks.

I'm dealing with many households who have become trapped with unsellable flats, and witness up close the devastating impact it has on their lives, relationships and health.

I'd leave tomorrow if we knew where we could go to. Can't afford to buy anywhere else nearby so huge decisions as to where we move. But that's for another thread and, in all fairness, not entirely Labour's fault.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 2:23 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:25 pm You need to start assessing your options and risks quickly. If it was me, I'd be seeking to exit yesterday. Mortgageability can disappear overnight for blighted blocks.

I'm dealing with many households who have become trapped with unsellable flats, and witness up close the devastating impact it has on their lives, relationships and health.

I'd leave tomorrow if we knew where we could go to. Can't afford to buy anywhere else nearby so huge decisions as to where we move. But that's for another thread and, in all fairness, not entirely Labour's fault.

Speak to Caca. He's definitely in the market.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 2:05 pm

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:55 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:04 pm

Again a different argument. But I agree, Bezos has help destroy a number of low paid high street jobs, along with many other stores too replacing expensive to run buildings with online options. Which of course themselves create different types of job opportunities. Businesses can trade without massive rates accompanied with huge car parking charges.

But the point being investment, however it comes along, creates jobs and we need to encourage investors not push them away. The rich are investors and should be welcomed and encouraged not despised and pushed away.

A different argument on the same thread under the banner of Labour.
Yet so little comment from you on the Toryscum watch thread over the last 14 years.
You sir have a very small mind & that probably isn't the only small thing about you

Judging by your comments I’ll not lose any sleep over your pitiful points. Grow up!

14 years you kept quiet on Toryscum & you tell me to grow up?

On the subject of houses mine is still intact. Thanks for asking.

Bins have gone awol. Covers off the external porch light. Power has been off for over an hour but back on now. Fence in back garden hanging at a weird angle but digging in manfully. Cat hiding under coffee table. Car alarms going off intermittently. Tree down across main road through village.

Daughters shed roof gone nobody knows where. She is in Scarborough but was able to supply photographic evidence via the ring doorbell security cameras that surround the house.

More news as it comes in.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 2:17 pm
A sad reflection on the drop in building standards and lack of regulation enforcement.

Why have building standards dropped, dohy?

Why are building regulations not up to standard, dohy?

You can do this, I believe in you!

Bet he says both sides are to blame. Which is true.

But the real answer is capitalism. It's to blame.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 3:11 pm Bet he says both sides are to blame. Which is true.

But the real answer is capitalism. It's to blame.

Then there was the Hackney paper or whatever it was called.
The one where the Tories got rid of LFB being in charge of safety regs in 2010/11 to cut through the red tape with the Olympics coming up.

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:07 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 3:11 pm Bet he says both sides are to blame. Which is true.

But the real answer is capitalism. It's to blame.

Then there was the Hackney paper or whatever it was called.
The one where the Tories got rid of LFB being in charge of safety regs in 2010/11 to cut through the red tape with the Olympics coming up.

Oh well. Labour will save the day I’m sure. I expect just as many crap properties were built under a Labour government as a Tory one

George M wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:19 pm

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:07 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 3:11 pm Bet he says both sides are to blame. Which is true.

But the real answer is capitalism. It's to blame.

Then there was the Hackney paper or whatever it was called.
The one where the Tories got rid of LFB being in charge of safety regs in 2010/11 to cut through the red tape with the Olympics coming up.

Oh well. Labour will save the day I’m sure. I expect just as many crap properties were built under a Labour government as a Tory one

Grenfell happened as a direct result of LFB being removed from control of safety regs in London.
This isn't about building of buildings, this is about safety of buildings.

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 2:46 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 2:05 pm

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:55 pm

A different argument on the same thread under the banner of Labour.
Yet so little comment from you on the Toryscum watch thread over the last 14 years.
You sir have a very small mind & that probably isn't the only small thing about you

Judging by your comments I’ll not lose any sleep over your pitiful points. Grow up!

14 years you kept quiet on Toryscum & you tell me to grow up?

People who use terms like Tory Scum, Labour Scum and so on just demonstrate their own personal stupidity. The truth is that all parties have their share of people at both ends of the scale, from dodgy dealers to hard working and dedicated people doing their best for the people they represent.

Likewise the populist sound-bite politics some spew out is equally dim. The last 14 years! Starting off with the massive global bust, through Brexit, Covid, The Ukraine war and to a degree Gaza. We can all talk about how well or badly these issues were managed, but they were massive issues that needed dealing with and the outcome was low unemployment, high employment, low inflation, reducing bank interest rates, tax reductions and an economy the fastest growing of the major European economies. Of course crap was on the horizon but that’s it. The Tories were tired and change was needed. No issue with that at all.

But what we have inherited is little short of a disaster. People are paying the price with their jobs already and it will get worse. The people being hit are those Labour traditionally looked after. Reeves backtracking on nom-doms too. Labour thus far have been a disaster. I really hope things change for the sake of my children and grandchildren. I don’t care what party is in charge so long as progress is happening, even slowly. The U.K. is going backwards.

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:25 pm

George M wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:19 pm

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:07 pm
Then there was the Hackney paper or he whatever it was called.
The one where the Tories got rid of LFB being in charge of safety regs in 2010/11 to cut through the red tape with the Olympics coming up.

Oh well. Labour will save the day I’m sure. I expect just as many crap properties were built under a Labour government as a Tory one

Grenfell happened as a direct result of LFB being removed from control of safety regs in London.
This isn't about building of buildings, this is about safety of buildings.

It didn’t. It came as a direct result of lack of care in anything we do in the UK now caused by successive governments creating a society with very little hope.

George M wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 12:11 pm

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:25 pm

George M wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:19 pm

Oh well. Labour will save the day I’m sure. I expect just as many crap properties were built under a Labour government as a Tory one

Grenfell happened as a direct result of LFB being removed from control of safety regs in London.
This isn't about building of buildings, this is about safety of buildings.

It didn’t. It came as a direct result of lack of care in anything we do in the UK now caused by successive governments creating a society with very little hope.

It did I'm afraid.
John Turner ex Fire safety Officer at Brisbane road & a member of Leyton fire brigade for yearsvis a personal friend of mine.
The Tory Party changed the Fire & Safety laws in 2020 or 2011, I can't remember which, showed me the law change which took Fire & safety regs out of the control of LFB.
It was to cut through red tape on tarting buildings up & new buildings in & around London pre Olympics.
The crap put on the outside of Grenfell would never have passed LFB's rigorous testing.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 11:55 am

Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 2:46 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 2:05 pm

Judging by your comments I’ll not lose any sleep over your pitiful points. Grow up!

14 years you kept quiet on Toryscum & you tell me to grow up?

People who use terms like Tory Scum, Labour Scum and so on just demonstrate their own personal stupidity.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 11:55 am Likewise the populist sound-bite politics some spew out is equally dim.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:53 pm Getting bored with the current Government shambles. Employment taking a turn for the worse. Hardly a surprise. This country is in a real downward spiral. Worrying times.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 12:54 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 10:16 am I see inflation is down. Nice one Reevse"""yyy

All sorted. Get the flags flying and the bells ringing. The carnage is over.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 10:56 pm Annoyed again, still waiting for my Starmer begging letter as he reaches out for any ideas on how to boost the economy. When the answer is so simple. Resign and take Rayner and Reeves with you. An immediate boost right there.

The three shambleers.

None for all, all for them.

You know what Stupid is Mr Doh Nut

My point is pretty much the same. It’s a total lack of care. I am in the industrial commercial building sector. I can turn up onsite and half of the builders are smoking joints at 9am. Anyone with any skill or knowledge have either retired or left because they don’t see a future in the industry. Nobody wants to take ultimate responsibility anymore.

George M wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 12:48 pm My point is pretty much the same. It’s a total lack of care. I am in the industrial commercial building sector. I can turn up onsite and half of the builders are smoking joints at 9am. Anyone with any skill or knowledge have either retired or left because they don’t see a future in the industry. Nobody wants to take ultimate responsibility anymore.

Which has very little if anything to do with the point made previously about Grenfel.