Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Of course they will.

That’s not a valid reason not to have an inquiry though, is it?

Well there looks to have already been ten. Why another now? Because Musk says so?

I personally don't understand the timing and why some people are only now demanding an inquiry - maybe one of the cheerleaders on here could explain their position and why it's only now, 10+ years later, that they're so vocal.

But it's still a valid request and the right thing to do.

They've been asking for the enquiry all along, only they've been ignored by the media, politicians and by the public generally. And, for some reason, leftist organisations and movements in the UK haven't picked up on this in the same way as they have with other important causes, such as George Floyd.

As I said:

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 1:49 pm 13 - There is a claim that the reason the victims of these rape gangs are being denied their full national inquiry is the same reason they were first targeted; They are white, and their attackers were predominately Muslim.

14 - There is a claim that the reason the scandal did not previously receive the same level of publicity, outrage as other examples social justice/miscarriage of justice, is the same reason they were first targeted; They are white, and their attackers were predominately Muslim.

15 – There is a claim that the likes of Elon Musk and the far right couldn’t give a flying f*ck about these victims but are just using this to further their agenda. This is undoubtably true. However, the deafening silence from the progressive left on this issue since 2011 could lend weight to the claim that they don’t give a flying f*ck about them either.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 10:24 am They've been asking for the enquiry all along, only they've been ignored by the media, politicians and by the public generally.

I think we're confusing our pronouns and talking about different 'theys'.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 10:50 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 10:24 am They've been asking for the enquiry all along, only they've been ignored by the media, politicians and by the public generally.

I think we're confusing our pronouns and talking about different 'theys'.

Victims have been been asking for the enquiry all along, only they've been ignored by the media, politicians and by the public generally.

And, for some reason, leftist organisations and movements in the UK haven't picked up on the calls from these victims in the same way as they have with other important causes, such as George Floyd.

This has created a vacuum, which the far right has identified as an opportunity to exploit and to further their agenda. And that opportunity was sparked by a recent-ish news report of one of the local enquiries, which Musk has lept upon with great enthusiasm.

But, instead of reflecting on why and how they have got things so wrong, some (or many?) leftists appear to be using the tactic of victim slurring to cast doubts on their motives instead of grasping the issue at hand. And using the old "it's just a far right/Elon Musk thing" as a shield to protect themselves of any scrutiny of their selective morals. Compare their reaction to this to their outrage and protests over the killing of one black man by police in an entirely different country.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 11:11 am
And, for some reason, leftist organisations and movements in the UK haven't picked up on the calls from these victims in the same way as they have with other important causes, such as George Floyd.

Hi, Tel.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 2:20 pm

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 2:09 pm Are the survivors calling/demanding a national inquiry into what happened? I only ever hear/see far right types demanding it.

And they're doing so now, not 6 months + ago, because of Sirkier.

Good point. I think that some survivors are now calling it, and this maybe because they've been whipped into action by far right agitators. However, they are still survivors, and does this necessary diminish the need or merits for a full national enquiry? Do we deny their claim because they're tainted?

Have the survivors been calling for a national/public enquiry this whole time? (Genuine question, I don't know if they have or not, and nor do you so it seems from your mixed responses).

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 11:23 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 2:20 pm

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 2:09 pm Are the survivors calling/demanding a national inquiry into what happened? I only ever hear/see far right types demanding it.

And they're doing so now, not 6 months + ago, because of Sirkier.

Good point. I think that some survivors are now calling it, and this maybe because they've been whipped into action by far right agitators. However, they are still survivors, and does this necessary diminish the need or merits for a full national enquiry? Do we deny their claim because they're tainted?

Have the survivors been calling for a national/public enquiry this whole time? (Genuine question, I don't know if they have or not, and nor do you so it seems from your mixed responses).

It would appear that some have been calling for it the whole time. Some of these were interviewed on BBC news recently, and I'd have thought that the BBC would have made extra effort to verify the credibility of anyone they interview on this particular issue. It's also possible that some victims are coming forward more recently as the issue has received more publicity.

And, yes, it's also possible that some of the survivors now coming forward are doing so because they are being manipulated/influenced by the far right. But so what? Does that mean they should not be believed or their claims not investigated? Do we start qualifying the creditability of rape claims now based on the beliefs of the victim.

Some (I'm not suggesting you) are trying to deploy a "victim slurring" tactic as a means to discredit victims and to justify the avoidance of proper scrutiny. It's victim slurring. It was wrong when the establishment did it to the Hillsborough victims, or to Jean Charles de Menezes, so why do certain people and groups feel it okay to do it now to these girls?

If they have been ignored by everyone except the far right after everything that has happened to them, then perhaps the correct response isn't to blame them but to question why they were ignored.

However, none of this should matter. A full and open national enquiry would remove any need to speculate.

Is there anything more to learn though? I think its already been found that multiple agencies were worried about appearing racist.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 1:42 pm Is there anything more to learn though?

Tackling rape gangs? Completed it mate

Getting bored with the current Government shambles. Employment taking a turn for the worse. Hardly a surprise. This country is in a real downward spiral. Worrying times.

Donut has every reason to be concerned about the current Government shambles.
We seem to have very short (or selective) memories.
Remember PM Blair’s Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown?

He who sold off over half of the UK’s gold reserve when gold prices were at their lowest and for just under 400 tonnes of gold he netted just under 3 billion pounds for the UK. He ignored the advice of the Bank of England and, of course, the previous Conservative Chancellor.

We never recovered from that terrible mistake. Had he not sold the Gold our reserves would be worth 27 billion pounds more than they are now.

Yet we now have a Chancellor with very little knowledge of the financial markets spending more money like there is no tomorrow and borrowing even more. The so called 22 billion pounds black hole would have been more than covered had not Labour sold our gold.

I think a certain Mrs Thatcher sold off quite a lot of the “family” silver as well I seem to recall. Plus splurging much of the proceeds from the North Sea oilfields on tax cuts instead of investing it for the future - as Norway did. Plus the cost of the ridiculous Falklands War, her bid to
raise her popularity and stay in power. If you’re really looking at serious mismanagement of the Country’s wealth then Maggie would take some beating.

Winchestorfan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 12:12 am Donut has every reason to be concerned about the current Government shambles.
We seem to have very short (or selective) memories.
Remember PM Blair’s Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown?

He who sold off over half of the UK’s gold reserve when gold prices were at their lowest and for just under 400 tonnes of gold he netted just under 3 billion pounds for the UK. He ignored the advice of the Bank of England and, of course, the previous Conservative Chancellor.

We never recovered from that terrible mistake. Had he not sold the Gold our reserves would be worth 27 billion pounds more than they are now.

Yet we now have a Chancellor with very little knowledge of the financial markets spending more money like there is no tomorrow and borrowing even more. The so called 22 billion pounds black hole would have been more than covered had not Labour sold our gold.

The £22billion black hole is a shortfall in the annual budget ie its £22 billion a year, every year, not just a one off debt that needs to be ‘paid’.

Rachel Reeves is planning to water down her tax raid on ultra-wealthy non-doms after an exodus of millionaires from Britain.

The Chancellor has prepared an amendment to the Finance Bill that will make it easier for non-doms to bring money instantly to the UK following growing fears that the super-rich will quit the UK en masse.

According to the Adam Smith Institute, a think tank, the lost millionaires last year would each have paid £393,957 per year in income tax, meaning the 2024 exodus alone was equivalent to losing half a million average taxpayers.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 84926.html

She’s so sh*t at this

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 11:40 am
According to the Adam Smith Institute,

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 12:07 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 11:40 am
According to the Adam Smith Institute,

Seen it all before in my working days. It goes like this.

Millionaire comes up with cunning plan to avoid paying UK taxes by moving abroad. Takes expensive tax advice on how to achieve it.

A year to eighteen months down the line they come back with their tale between their legs because they don't like living abroad as an immigrant and miss the old country and then come home and swallow the tax bill which unfortunately doesn't choke them.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 12:17 pm

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 12:07 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 11:40 am
According to the Adam Smith Institute,

Seen it all before in my working days. It goes like this.

Millionaire comes up with cunning plan to avoid paying UK taxes by moving abroad. Takes expensive tax advice on how to achieve it.

A year to eighteen months down the line they come back with their tale between their legs because they don't like living abroad as an immigrant and miss the old country and then come home and swallow the tax bill which unfortunately doesn't choke them.

Presumably this is about foreign millionaires who come over here for all the benefits our country brings but don't want to pay tax like our British millionaires do?

I'm only guessing, you'd have to ask Adam Smith for precise numbers.

No that's the patriotic UK ones.

The foreign ones set up complicated overseas networks of trusts, anstalts, partnerships and companies in tax havens etc to extract profit from UK companies using interest, royalties, management fees, overpriced sales etc.

Of course Cameron, Rees Mogg, Boris's old man etc employ similar strategies in their business dealings and they're not foreigns.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 11:49 am She’s so sh*t at this

To be fair she has seen the impact of her policy and is trying to rectify it. We need people to invest in Britain not take their wealth elsewhere. It’s a start.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:38 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 11:49 am She’s so sh*t at this

To be fair she has seen the impact of her policy and is trying to rectify it. We need people to invest in Britain not take their wealth elsewhere. It’s a start.

Good point. Will they be sharing this wealth in any meaningful way?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:40 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:38 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 11:49 am She’s so sh*t at this

To be fair she has seen the impact of her policy and is trying to rectify it. We need people to invest in Britain not take their wealth elsewhere. It’s a start.

Good point. Will they be sharing this wealth in any meaningful way?

Not about rights and wrongs. Rich people like making money and in doing so invest. It’s that investment that allows companies to grow and in the process create jobs. Great political ideology to want the rich to pay more, in fact when you look at figures they contribute more than people think, but a bye-product of coming down hard is they simply take their wealth elsewhere. Lose-lose. Maybe not right, but life ain’t fair. Cut off your nose to spite your face stuff. Reality vs ideology.

Not enough reality going on right now.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:48 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:40 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:38 pm

To be fair she has seen the impact of her policy and is trying to rectify it. We need people to invest in Britain not take their wealth elsewhere. It’s a start.

Good point. Will they be sharing this wealth in any meaningful way?

Not about rights and wrongs. Rich people like making money and in doing so invest. It’s that investment that allows companies to grow and in the process create jobs. Great political ideology to want the rich to pay more, in fact when you look at figures they contribute more than people think, but a bye-product of coming down hard is they simply take their wealth elsewhere. Lose-lose. Maybe not right, but life ain’t fair. Cut off your nose to spite your face stuff. Reality vs ideology.

Not enough reality going on right now.

Jeff Bezos worth $243.8 billion.
There are currently 1.03 million zero hour contracts in the U.K
Is that kind of investment needed?