Labour Watch

[Dunners]

Are the survivors calling/demanding a national inquiry into what happened? I only ever hear/see far right types demanding it.

And they're doing so now, not 6 months + ago, because of Sirkier.

Good point. I think that some survivors are now calling it, and this maybe because they've been whipped into action by far right agitators. However, they are still survivors, and does this necessary diminish the need or merits for a full national enquiry? Do we deny their claim because they're tainted?

[StillSpike]

I don't really understand the reluctance (other than cost) to having a National Inquiry. Labour are only in the door about 5 minutes, so what are they concerned about? If it's true that a National Inquiry would in some way stop the current - and late - response to the Jay Enquiry then I can't see any real reason to keep refusing (other than cost, or being seen to be responding to "the mob") And if such an Inquiry would actually stop the changes being made - then come out and explain exactly how it might.

It's just human nature - the more someone says "you can't look in that room" without providing a sensible reason, the more you're going to think they've got some horrible secret bound and gagged in there.

While we're at it - we could have a National Inquiry into the handling of Covid 19 PPE Contracts. There's been a NAO "investigation", but that's not good enough. There needs to be a full Judge-led National Inquiry.

[Dunners]

I think a reluctance to give in to the mob may be playing a part, but denying victims a a national enquiry for that reason would just further reinforce the suggestion that the victims are valued less than the progressive ideology.

That's the thing, and I think you've nailed it, I just do not see any downside to Labour doing this, and only upsides.

[Currywurst and Chips]

I note Two Tier has ceased calling it a far right bandwagon since survivors came out and starting demanding an inquiry too

[faldO]

Now Labour Mayor of Manchester Andy Burnham has jumped on the far right bandwagon and called for a national enquiry into grooming gangs, albeit a "limited" one.

Sir Kier skipped the vote yesterday, along with other cabinet ministers (Reeves, Rayner, Lammy, Streeting, Miliband, Reynolds, Healey, Reed), leaving open the possibility of them jumping on it too.

[StillSpike]

Proper 4-D Chess from the political geniuses now in charge.

[Dohnut]

Megapost alert!

I've attempted to get my head around all the key elements to this, but genuinely happy to be put right on any points I'm unsure of. I think the gist is as follows:

1 - Pakistani Muslim men did target predominantly vulnerable white girls for sexual exploitation over many years with potentially tens of thousands of victims.

2 - Therefore, it was the perpetrators that added the racial element to what would otherwise have been “just” a sexual abuse scandal, and not the far right (although, they are happy to do so too).

3 - This was ignored and covered up by people in authority, and positions of trust and responsibility, for fear of being labelled as racist and in the interest of "community cohesion".

4 – A Home Office circular from 2008 (so yes, Labour) suggests that Central government were developing some degree of awareness of an issue. But this circular seems to have been interpreted (perhaps incorrectly) by many people in positions of responsibility to suggest they turn a blind eye to things.

5 – The Rochdale rape gang was prosecuted in 2011, and this brought the issue more into the public eye. When head of CPS, Kier Starmer authorised a national response in 2012, which resulted in thousands of prosecutions. So, credit where it is due.

6 - There have been inquiries into abuse in individual local authority boroughs. There has been a generic inquiry into all forms of child abuse (i.e. the Jay Report). There has been no specific national inquiry into the systemic rape of white girls by predominately Muslim men, and its cover up.

7 - This specific national enquiry is what the survivors are calling for.

8 - The Tories refused this national enquiry back in 2022. So, it’s disgusting for them to try and now claim the moral high-ground.

9 - Labour now claim that a full national enquiry would just delay acting on implementing the Jay recommendations.

10 - But none of the Jay recommendations would be influenced in any way by the announcement of a new inquiry. So, f*ck Labour too.
--------------------

The absence of a single source of truth, open to public scrutiny, is fertile breeding ground for the spreading of rumour, theories, claims etc. So, let’s now take a look at some of them:

11 – A claim being put about now is that the scale of the abuse could only have been possible with the complicit support and protection of the perpetrators’ friends, family, and wider community.

12 - There is a claim that some Labour MPs are nervous to wade into this issue because they are reliant on thin majorities of predominantly Pakistani Muslim voters. The implication being that these communities would punish their MP, thus lending weight to the claim made in point 11 above.

13 - There is a claim that the reason the victims of these rape gangs are being denied their full national inquiry is the same reason they were first targeted; They are white, and their attackers were predominately Muslim.

14 - There is a claim that the reason the scandal did not previously receive the same level of publicity, outrage as other examples social justice/miscarriage of justice, is the same reason they were first targeted; They are white, and their attackers were predominately Muslim.

15 – There is a claim that the likes of Elon Musk and the far right couldn’t give a flying f*ck about these victims but are just using this to further their agenda. This is undoubtably true. However, the deafening silence from the progressive left on this issue since 2011 could lend weight to the claim that they don’t give a flying f*ck about them either.

16 – There is a claim that this whole thing is being blown out of proportion, and that what has happened is entirely consistent with the background level of child abuse endemic throughout all sections of our society. This may be true; however, I do note the absence of the usual voices that would be all too quick to put out such helpful information (i.e. BBC Verify is very quite on this issue). But this could be because there’s no evidence to either support or refute this claim (yet).

17 - A full public enquiry, as requested by victims, could explore whether there was any basis to the above claims, identify where failings have occurred, and propose recommendations for justice and improvements. If these claims were proven to be incorrect then, while it may not stop the far right from spreading lies, it would mean everyone else could be informed. It would also close down any information vacuum which, as we know from certain other topics, the far right are skilled at exploiting.

Have I got this right? Is the above an accurate summary of the situation as it is currently known?

What that proves is that as time moves forward, knowledge and experience improves and as such the demands for action and types of action evolves.

[Dohnut]

Megapost alert!

I've attempted to get my head around all the key elements to this, but genuinely happy to be put right on any points I'm unsure of. I think the gist is as follows:

1 - Pakistani Muslim men did target predominantly vulnerable white girls for sexual exploitation over many years with potentially tens of thousands of victims.

2 - Therefore, it was the perpetrators that added the racial element to what would otherwise have been “just” a sexual abuse scandal, and not the far right (although, they are happy to do so too).

3 - This was ignored and covered up by people in authority, and positions of trust and responsibility, for fear of being labelled as racist and in the interest of "community cohesion".

4 – A Home Office circular from 2008 (so yes, Labour) suggests that Central government were developing some degree of awareness of an issue. But this circular seems to have been interpreted (perhaps incorrectly) by many people in positions of responsibility to suggest they turn a blind eye to things.

5 – The Rochdale rape gang was prosecuted in 2011, and this brought the issue more into the public eye. When head of CPS, Kier Starmer authorised a national response in 2012, which resulted in thousands of prosecutions. So, credit where it is due.

6 - There have been inquiries into abuse in individual local authority boroughs. There has been a generic inquiry into all forms of child abuse (i.e. the Jay Report). There has been no specific national inquiry into the systemic rape of white girls by predominately Muslim men, and its cover up.

7 - This specific national enquiry is what the survivors are calling for.

8 - The Tories refused this national enquiry back in 2022. So, it’s disgusting for them to try and now claim the moral high-ground.

9 - Labour now claim that a full national enquiry would just delay acting on implementing the Jay recommendations.

10 - But none of the Jay recommendations would be influenced in any way by the announcement of a new inquiry. So, f*ck Labour too.
--------------------

The absence of a single source of truth, open to public scrutiny, is fertile breeding ground for the spreading of rumour, theories, claims etc. So, let’s now take a look at some of them:

11 – A claim being put about now is that the scale of the abuse could only have been possible with the complicit support and protection of the perpetrators’ friends, family, and wider community.

12 - There is a claim that some Labour MPs are nervous to wade into this issue because they are reliant on thin majorities of predominantly Pakistani Muslim voters. The implication being that these communities would punish their MP, thus lending weight to the claim made in point 11 above.

13 - There is a claim that the reason the victims of these rape gangs are being denied their full national inquiry is the same reason they were first targeted; They are white, and their attackers were predominately Muslim.

14 - There is a claim that the reason the scandal did not previously receive the same level of publicity, outrage as other examples social justice/miscarriage of justice, is the same reason they were first targeted; They are white, and their attackers were predominately Muslim.

15 – There is a claim that the likes of Elon Musk and the far right couldn’t give a flying f*ck about these victims but are just using this to further their agenda. This is undoubtably true. However, the deafening silence from the progressive left on this issue since 2011 could lend weight to the claim that they don’t give a flying f*ck about them either.

16 – There is a claim that this whole thing is being blown out of proportion, and that what has happened is entirely consistent with the background level of child abuse endemic throughout all sections of our society. This may be true; however, I do note the absence of the usual voices that would be all too quick to put out such helpful information (i.e. BBC Verify is very quite on this issue). But this could be because there’s no evidence to either support or refute this claim (yet).

17 - A full public enquiry, as requested by victims, could explore whether there was any basis to the above claims, identify where failings have occurred, and propose recommendations for justice and improvements. If these claims were proven to be incorrect then, while it may not stop the far right from spreading lies, it would mean everyone else could be informed. It would also close down any information vacuum which, as we know from certain other topics, the far right are skilled at exploiting.

Have I got this right? Is the above an accurate summary of the situation as it is currently known?

What that proves is that as time moves forward, knowledge and experience improves and as such the demands for action and types of action evolves.

[Dunners]

Can someone give Ed Miliband a nudge, please?

[Hoover Attack]

Megapost alert!

I've attempted to get my head around all the key elements to this, but genuinely happy to be put right on any points I'm unsure of. I think the gist is as follows:

1 - Pakistani Muslim men did target predominantly vulnerable white girls for sexual exploitation over many years with potentially tens of thousands of victims.

2 - Therefore, it was the perpetrators that added the racial element to what would otherwise have been “just” a sexual abuse scandal, and not the far right (although, they are happy to do so too).

3 - This was ignored and covered up by people in authority, and positions of trust and responsibility, for fear of being labelled as racist and in the interest of "community cohesion".

4 – A Home Office circular from 2008 (so yes, Labour) suggests that Central government were developing some degree of awareness of an issue. But this circular seems to have been interpreted (perhaps incorrectly) by many people in positions of responsibility to suggest they turn a blind eye to things.

5 – The Rochdale rape gang was prosecuted in 2011, and this brought the issue more into the public eye. When head of CPS, Kier Starmer authorised a national response in 2012, which resulted in thousands of prosecutions. So, credit where it is due.

6 - There have been inquiries into abuse in individual local authority boroughs. There has been a generic inquiry into all forms of child abuse (i.e. the Jay Report). There has been no specific national inquiry into the systemic rape of white girls by predominately Muslim men, and its cover up.

7 - This specific national enquiry is what the survivors are calling for.

8 - The Tories refused this national enquiry back in 2022. So, it’s disgusting for them to try and now claim the moral high-ground.

9 - Labour now claim that a full national enquiry would just delay acting on implementing the Jay recommendations.

10 - But none of the Jay recommendations would be influenced in any way by the announcement of a new inquiry. So, f*ck Labour too.
--------------------

The absence of a single source of truth, open to public scrutiny, is fertile breeding ground for the spreading of rumour, theories, claims etc. So, let’s now take a look at some of them:

11 – A claim being put about now is that the scale of the abuse could only have been possible with the complicit support and protection of the perpetrators’ friends, family, and wider community.

12 - There is a claim that some Labour MPs are nervous to wade into this issue because they are reliant on thin majorities of predominantly Pakistani Muslim voters. The implication being that these communities would punish their MP, thus lending weight to the claim made in point 11 above.

13 - There is a claim that the reason the victims of these rape gangs are being denied their full national inquiry is the same reason they were first targeted; They are white, and their attackers were predominately Muslim.

14 - There is a claim that the reason the scandal did not previously receive the same level of publicity, outrage as other examples social justice/miscarriage of justice, is the same reason they were first targeted; They are white, and their attackers were predominately Muslim.

15 – There is a claim that the likes of Elon Musk and the far right couldn’t give a flying f*ck about these victims but are just using this to further their agenda. This is undoubtably true. However, the deafening silence from the progressive left on this issue since 2011 could lend weight to the claim that they don’t give a flying f*ck about them either.

16 – There is a claim that this whole thing is being blown out of proportion, and that what has happened is entirely consistent with the background level of child abuse endemic throughout all sections of our society. This may be true; however, I do note the absence of the usual voices that would be all too quick to put out such helpful information (i.e. BBC Verify is very quite on this issue). But this could be because there’s no evidence to either support or refute this claim (yet).

17 - A full public enquiry, as requested by victims, could explore whether there was any basis to the above claims, identify where failings have occurred, and propose recommendations for justice and improvements. If these claims were proven to be incorrect then, while it may not stop the far right from spreading lies, it would mean everyone else could be informed. It would also close down any information vacuum which, as we know from certain other topics, the far right are skilled at exploiting.

Have I got this right? Is the above an accurate summary of the situation as it is currently known?

What that proves is that as time moves forward, knowledge and experience improves and as such the demands for action and types of action evolves.

What this proves is that the far-right and tory party are both full of absolute chancers happy to use the survivors of these horrific crimes as bait. Sad.

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

Is there not a part of you thinking that it might be a good idea for those of us on the left to reflect on the bits that we all got very wrong here too?

[Dunners]

Is there not a part of you thinking that it might be a good idea for those of us on the left to reflect on the bits that we all got very wrong here too?

To be fair to the left, they were rather busy at the time lecturing us on pronouns. Get your priorities right.

[Dunners]

This, from October last year, may age very badly.

[Currywurst and Chips]

A government of service that won’t be driven by dogma, whose number one goal is economic growth

[Dunners]

Point 4 is being refuted so this needs to be updated. I've yet to hear or read a credible and compelling reason from Labour or anyone else as to why there should not be an open national enquiry.

Megapost alert!

I've attempted to get my head around all the key elements to this, but genuinely happy to be put right on any points I'm unsure of. I think the gist is as follows:

1 - Pakistani Muslim men did target predominantly vulnerable white girls for sexual exploitation over many years with potentially tens of thousands of victims.

2 - Therefore, it was the perpetrators that added the racial element to what would otherwise have been “just” a sexual abuse scandal, and not the far right (although, they are happy to do so too).

3 - This was ignored and covered up by people in authority, and positions of trust and responsibility, for fear of being labelled as racist and in the interest of "community cohesion".

4 – A Home Office circular from 2008 (so yes, Labour) suggests that Central government were developing some degree of awareness of an issue. But this circular seems to have been interpreted (perhaps incorrectly) by many people in positions of responsibility to suggest they turn a blind eye to things.

5 – The Rochdale rape gang was prosecuted in 2011, and this brought the issue more into the public eye. When head of CPS, Kier Starmer authorised a national response in 2012, which resulted in thousands of prosecutions. So, credit where it is due.

6 - There have been inquiries into abuse in individual local authority boroughs. There has been a generic inquiry into all forms of child abuse (i.e. the Jay Report). There has been no specific national inquiry into the systemic rape of white girls by predominately Muslim men, and its cover up.

7 - This specific national enquiry is what the survivors are calling for.

8 - The Tories refused this national enquiry back in 2022. So, it’s disgusting for them to try and now claim the moral high-ground.

9 - Labour now claim that a full national enquiry would just delay acting on implementing the Jay recommendations.

10 - But none of the Jay recommendations would be influenced in any way by the announcement of a new inquiry. So, f*ck Labour too.
--------------------

The absence of a single source of truth, open to public scrutiny, is fertile breeding ground for the spreading of rumour, theories, claims etc. So, let’s now take a look at some of them:

11 – A claim being put about now is that the scale of the abuse could only have been possible with the complicit support and protection of the perpetrators’ friends, family, and wider community.

12 - There is a claim that some Labour MPs are nervous to wade into this issue because they are reliant on thin majorities of predominantly Pakistani Muslim voters. The implication being that these communities would punish their MP, thus lending weight to the claim made in point 11 above.

13 - There is a claim that the reason the victims of these rape gangs are being denied their full national inquiry is the same reason they were first targeted; They are white, and their attackers were predominately Muslim.

14 - There is a claim that the reason the scandal did not previously receive the same level of publicity, outrage as other examples social justice/miscarriage of justice, is the same reason they were first targeted; They are white, and their attackers were predominately Muslim.

15 – There is a claim that the likes of Elon Musk and the far right couldn’t give a flying f*ck about these victims but are just using this to further their agenda. This is undoubtably true. However, the deafening silence from the progressive left on this issue since 2011 could lend weight to the claim that they don’t give a flying f*ck about them either.

16 – There is a claim that this whole thing is being blown out of proportion, and that what has happened is entirely consistent with the background level of child abuse endemic throughout all sections of our society. This may be true; however, I do note the absence of the usual voices that would be all too quick to put out such helpful information (i.e. BBC Verify is very quite on this issue). But this could be because there’s no evidence to either support or refute this claim (yet).

17 - A full public enquiry, as requested by victims, could explore whether there was any basis to the above claims, identify where failings have occurred, and propose recommendations for justice and improvements. If these claims were proven to be incorrect then, while it may not stop the far right from spreading lies, it would mean everyone else could be informed. It would also close down any information vacuum which, as we know from certain other topics, the far right are skilled at exploiting.

Have I got this right? Is the above an accurate summary of the situation as it is currently known?

[faldO]

At last some good news...(assuming you pay for your tickets rather than get freebies)

[Currywurst and Chips]

What’s the argument for the cap for resale tickets not being set at face value?

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

A cap that’s above face value just reinforces the legitimacy of scalping and will be a further step towards the big ticket companies routinely using dynamic pricing

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

Nobody in a position of power on this cares about affordability in terms of fairness: all that’s happened is a recognition that because of how yours have thrived, the industry is leaving money on the table by not adopting a model that allows for the dynamics of touting to be in play at the primary stage of ticket sales

[Dohnut]

A cap that’s above face value just reinforces the legitimacy of scalping and will be a further step towards the big ticket companies routinely using dynamic pricing

There is a legitimate cost involved in buying unsold-returned tickets and making them available for resale. So without a profitable markup there is no point in companies seeking tickets for resale. Companies also take away much of the marketing and selling costs the venues themselves would incur. Selling above ticket price is reasonable and normal. The issue is the ripoff pricing that exists.

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

There is no need for a company to exist to buy unsold tickets and make them available for resale. Thats not what’s being discussed. You may somehow not be aware of this, but the actual issue is the buying up of tickets that are in demand and resale of them.

But if you want to start a company that buys up unsold tickets then sells them on for more money than they were already on sale for, then I wish you very good luck, because you’ll need it

[Currywurst and Chips]

Think Orient and smaller ticketing platforms like Ticketmaster manage to do resale at face value

The admin/service/processing/pisstake charge they add on top of that pays for the re-listing

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Aren’t all the major resale sites part of the big ticket sellers companies?

[Dohnut]

There is no need for a company to exist to buy unsold tickets and make them available for resale. Thats not what’s being discussed. You may somehow not be aware of this, but the actual issue is the buying up of tickets that are in demand and resale of them.

But if you want to start a company that buys up unsold tickets then sells them on for more money than they were already on sale for, then I wish you very good luck, because you’ll need it

Many organisations exist that take the responsibility for selling tickets away from the venue. They do so because they have the sales infrastructure not available to the venue and the staff to deal with it. This system works from small theatres/events to large operations who don’t want to or cannot manage the operation. They are in fact operating a very positive service.

It is also useful for people wishing to buy tickets to be able to browse the tickets available, their cost and availability. This system works well and has done for many years. It’s also a great option for shows to offload cheap tickets for those shows not sold out.

This is the majority situation. But of course there are those who buy up tickets and try to make stupid profits. Spivs as they were once called and they still exist, though it’s developed into a cottage industry these days. Years ago they just hung around venues crying out anyone got any spare tickets or anyone wants to buy a ticket. Now it’s online. It’s exists because people are willing to pay.

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

There is literally no need for such a business to exist, as infrastructure already exists to sell tickets at face value.

Agencies that want to slightly rip off tourists are not the worst type of ticket touting but they are unnecessary.

But the point remains that this discussion is not about selling tickets to Les Mis to tourists. It’s about the fact that thousands of tickets for the biggest artists in the world are snapped up in seconds by scumbags who want to make a profit, and the fact that ticket companies see this and think “we could be the scumbags and make even more money”