Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Scots in a pickle already

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64388669

I’m saying nothing

Bet you do.

A person of 51 has been charged in connection with the missing 11 year old girl at Galashiels ( Scottish Borders ). The girl has been found alive. Police say Andrew Miller, also known as Amy George, was arrested on Tuesday. Police confirmed he was charged overnight. Is it something to do with the wearing of kilts?

What absolutely horrific news. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-man ... 620539.amp

16 years of age. May she rest in peace.

TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:38 pm What absolutely horrific news. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-man ... 620539.amp

16 years of age. May she rest in peace.

It's OK. It wasn't hate related the BBC says.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:59 pm

TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:38 pm What absolutely horrific news. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-man ... 620539.amp

16 years of age. May she rest in peace.

It's OK. It wasn't hate related the BBC says.

How can you write ''Its OK'', Its a murder of a young person, end of.

First trans murder i can recall, which is surprising. Not that this should be used for point scoring.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:09 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:59 pm

TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:38 pm What absolutely horrific news. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-man ... 620539.amp

16 years of age. May she rest in peace.

It's OK. It wasn't hate related the BBC says.

How can you write ''Its OK'', Its a murder of a young person, end of.

I notice you didn't say murder of a young girl. How can you write that?

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:52 am

“I have a vegan cat.
It meows happily whenever it eats vegan food.
When people have given it meat, the cat’s mood has been off for days and I’ve noticed it’s little expression show unhappiness.
Yours coincidentally, a vegan”

Wow, the second tweet in that thread is terrifying

An activist parent scares the crap out of a kid who already “identifies” as trans (has discomfort with her body and the prospect of growing up) with scare stories about periods, and thinks that blocking puberty like it’s a pause button is an answer.

“I’m going to surigically and hormonally change my kid’s birthday so that her personality, which she sees as that of a man, is in a body that looks right for a man”

Truly awful, sexist nonsense.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/ ... ng-at-gids

What are the chances that a woman whose Twitter bio describes herself as
“Mom not woman”, and as a “crippled queer chaos demon” might be unduly, unconsciously influencing a child into identifying as trans by having very, very bad answers to any questions about what it is to be a girl, and being delighted by any suggestions that she’s a boy?

That’s child abuse.

CEB wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:05 am An activist parent scares the crap out of a kid who already “identifies” as trans (has discomfort with her body and the prospect of growing up) with scare stories about periods, and thinks that blocking puberty like it’s a pause button is an answer.

“I’m going to surigically and hormonally change my kid’s birthday so that her personality, which she sees as that of a man, is in a body that looks right for a man”

Truly awful, sexist nonsense.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/ ... ng-at-gids

It's obvious that this topic is very complex and difficult to understand. On a personal level my family and myself have not been affected. My late teenage and early 20's children have friends who have. They show understanding and support when appropriate.

The whole wider debate has turned into a vicious and hurtful spectacle with people who feel they have all the answers and are unwilling to listen. Even a mild rebuke like "Truly awful, sexist nonsense" adds to the hate and is not helpful

I am embarrassed to say, I have not read enough or sort understanding on the issue to the extent feeling in anyway able to form a view that I an 100% happy with. This is in part to the toxic atmosphere that makes it hard and difficult to even step a toe into it.

At this stage my heart goes out to everyone who are actually involved in the issue personally and hope that those that have formed harsh views, on both sides and some with far more knowledge and experience than others, remember that words and point scoring hurt people.

As I wrote my post, another 3 or posts came in. My stepping my toe into this debate proves my point

As someone who has first hand experience on this subject, Id like to know what EH16 feels about all this.

Maybe don’t post links by a child abusing ideologue who is openly talking about making her children a lifelong medical patient with no sexual function and no fertility if you aren’t aware enough of the context and find that describing it as “sexist” just adds to hatred?

Maybe actually read some of the arguments made across the board until you actually understand it?

I’m done with people who find the debate “toxic” but can’t be bothered to read, but will happily post tweets by activists without the slightest bit of scrutiny.

The debate is past the point of “duh… puberty blockers are good when a kid is in the wrong body!”, there’s an incredibly well researched book out next week, reviewed in yesterday’s observer. Read it and actually find out what is happening, rather than sharing sexist, regressive crap.

It has seeped into society and what is frightening is that more and more children will be taught this dangerous nonsense.

CEB wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:53 am Maybe don’t post links by child abusing ideologues who are openly talking about making her children a lifelong medical patient with no sexual function and no fertility if you aren’t aware enough of the context and find that describing it as “sexist” just adds to hatred?

Maybe actually read some of the arguments made across the board until you actually understand it?

I’m done with people who find the debate “toxic” but can’t be bothered to read, but will happily post tweets by activists without the slightest bit of scrutiny.

The debate is past the point of “duh… puberty blockers are good when a kid is in the wrong body!”, there’s an incredibly well researched book out next week, reviewed in yesterday’s observer. Read it and actually find out what is happening, rather than sharing sexist, regressive crap.

I posted the tweet to proke debate. It wasn't filled with toxic words and hate so I was able to read it. You obviously feel your knowledge on the subject is sufficient to form an opinion that you are entirely happy with but you are wasting that knowledge. Your whole approach with engagement in this area if from one of superiority and at the very least belittling any view that differs from your own. Your tone and frankly vile words, only add to the debate largely being fought between those who feel that they have the all the answers. In reality we are a long way from knowing the best way forward that tries to provide the best solutions. You are not helping but in fact moving that point further away and adding to the suffering many are going through.

Please take a step back and think about a more measured thoughtful and less confrontational approach. Alow the debate to breathe to provide oxygen for others to feel safe to join the debate.

When people talk about how an ideology - and individuals within it - “turn kids trans”, what’s happening isn’t parents or teachers saying to a girl “you are a boy! You need to understand this!” - it’s bringing a child up in a context where words have different meanings. So for the kid in the tweet whose mum is a “crippled queer chaos demon”, the only definition of “boy” she knows is “child who gravitates towards things considered masculine”, so in her model of the world, she’s *obviously* a boy, and being one makes her mum happy.

Note that then, her mum isn’t encouraging her to be comfortable in her own skin, with “boy” just being an identity. No, she needs to move past that, onto being “affirmed” as a boy with hormonal interventions.
Imagine that activists don’t just support this, but suggest that anyone suggesting that the child might not need such interventions can only be motivated by bigotry?
And imagine that child going to a clinic with a culture of fear among staff, who are forced out and demonised when they report that autistic and gay children, and victims of child sexual abuse are over represented in the cohort of kids attending.
Imagine a charity coaching the children on what to say to make sure they get their puberty blockers. (A charity that had a paedophile activist on its board until “bigots” outed him)
Imagine the clinic prescribed blockers after just two appointments.

But apparently, calling it sexist, regressive bullshit toxifies the debate…

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:29 am

CEB wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:53 am Maybe don’t post links by child abusing ideologues who are openly talking about making her children a lifelong medical patient with no sexual function and no fertility if you aren’t aware enough of the context and find that describing it as “sexist” just adds to hatred?

Maybe actually read some of the arguments made across the board until you actually understand it?

I’m done with people who find the debate “toxic” but can’t be bothered to read, but will happily post tweets by activists without the slightest bit of scrutiny.

The debate is past the point of “duh… puberty blockers are good when a kid is in the wrong body!”, there’s an incredibly well researched book out next week, reviewed in yesterday’s observer. Read it and actually find out what is happening, rather than sharing sexist, regressive crap.

I posted the tweet to proke debate. It wasn't filled with toxic words and hate so I was able to read it. You obviously feel your knowledge on the subject is sufficient to form an opinion that you are entirely happy with but you are wasting that knowledge. Your whole approach with engagement in this area if from one of superiority and at the very least belittling any view that differs from your own. Your tone and frankly vile words, only add to the debate largely being fought between those who feel that they have the all the answers. In reality we are a long way from knowing the best way forward that tries to provide the best solutions. You are not helping but in fact moving that point further away and adding to the suffering many are going through.

Please take a step back and think about a more measured thoughtful and less confrontational approach. Alow the debate to breathe to provide oxygen for others to feel safe to join the debate.

If you’re entering the debate by posting material you don’t understand in the hope of provoking debate, you can’t complain when you get told that your post is nonsense. Now, I’ve posted a link to a review of a book. Why not read the review, and maybe even read the book. I’ve made sure I understand every angle of this debate before being confident of where I stand. I’m profusely sorry for not giving requisite credit to “I found a tweet by someone clearly nuts, discuss, but nicely”

Again your post is all about your views, you have all the answers. Of course it decends as always into name calling that doesn't add anything to understanding the issue. Why should I read anything you personally recommend. My toe has truly been stamped on here, how dare I even contemplate trying it again