Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:20 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:33 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:31 pm Looking at suspending it to younger age groups, yes, along the lines of the article you posted.

Can you link to this announcement, wasnt on the lunchtime news?

Fwiw - Germany didnt just suspend to younger age groups but everyone under 60.

Did Germany keep administering it to the over 60s?

Hopefully

So they have suspended it for the younger age groups only?

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:28 pm So they have suspended it for the younger age groups only?

No

Along with anti Brexit EU members such as... Canada and Norway. Look forward to PAM providing proof that the reason Germany suspended vaccinating under 60s because of jingoism. We should get an announcement on administering vaccinations to younger age groups in the UK soon.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:36 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:28 pm So they have suspended it for the younger age groups only?

No

Sorry, for a minute I thought you were saying they were still administering it to the older age group over 60, but had suspended giving it to the younger age group under 60.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:37 pm Along with anti Brexit EU members such as... Canada and Norway. Look forward to PAM providing proof that the reason Germany suspended vaccinating under 60s because of jingoism. We should get an announcement on administering vaccinations to younger age groups in the UK soon.

I believe at this stage it is a suggestion by one member of SAGE to limit the vaccinations to under 30s.

So we haven't (yet) restricted the vaccine by age and the proposal (from one person) is to restrict it to under 30's which is a small cohort compared to under 60s in Germany.

We're exactly like Germany other than that, great comparison

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:40 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:36 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:28 pm So they have suspended it for the younger age groups only?

No

Sorry, for a minute I thought you were saying they were still administering it to the older age group over 60, but had suspended giving it to the younger age group under 60.

I was

Lol. So no proof that Germany made the decision on the basis of some kind of rivalry? No views on why Canada and Norway have made similar decisions?

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:46 pm Lol. So no proof that Germany made the decision on the basis of some kind of rivalry? No views on why Canada and Norway have made similar decisions?

Sorry, the discussion has moved on a bit since you tried to claim we were following German policy here.

I'd imagine Norway and Canada are making knee-jerk reactions that will cost lives. Especially given the EMA has said the miniscule risk attached to the vaccine is massively outweighed by the benefits.

But you said Germany made that decision on the basis of the EU being anti British on this and then didn't provide any proof. As a bit of a pedant yourself, I'm sure you understand why it'd be good to have some evidence in light of other non-eu countries with no geopolitical motivations making similar decisions.

Would you consider Neil Ferguson to be a knee jerk reactionary?

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:56 pm But you said Germany made that decision on the basis of the EU being anti British on this and then didn't provide any proof. As a bit of a pedant yourself, I'm sure you understand why it'd be good to have some evidence in light of other non-eu countries with no geopolitical motivations making similar decisions.

Would you consider Neil Ferguson to be a knee jerk reactionary?

Well, unfortunately I don't have ways of proving Angela Merkel's motivations. I think the decision is less of a rivalry thing and more to try and mask the shortcomings of their own vaccine deployment, especially with elections in Germany this Year and France next.

I don't trust the overtures being made about safety on a national level when at a supranational level there is a very concerted effort to increase stock of AZ.

Sadly, hearing anecdotally via the news and friends and family living on the continent stocks are only half the issue. Vaccine hesitancy is also playing a major part in the rollout. Sadly, remarks from people like Macron that it is "quasi effective" as well as the latest Bloodclot issue add fuel to the fire and embolden the anti-vaxx message spread by morons like Thor et al.

I don't think Canada has suspended AZ for the above reasons, similarly with other countries like Indonesia that have. I'd speculate that they're just being overly cautious.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:51 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:46 pm Lol. So no proof that Germany made the decision on the basis of some kind of rivalry? No views on why Canada and Norway have made similar decisions?

Sorry, the discussion has moved on a bit since you tried to claim we were following German policy here.

I'd imagine Norway and Canada are making knee-jerk reactions that will cost lives. Especially given the EMA has said the miniscule risk attached to the vaccine is massively outweighed by the benefits.

There aren't any benefits if you are the one getting the clots and death.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:44 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:40 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:36 pm

No

Sorry, for a minute I thought you were saying they were still administering it to the older age group over 60, but had suspended giving it to the younger age group under 60.

I was

So they are giving it to the older and not giving it to the younger after all?

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:40 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:44 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:40 pm

Sorry, for a minute I thought you were saying they were still administering it to the older age group over 60, but had suspended giving it to the younger age group under 60.

I was

So they are giving it to the older and not giving it to the younger after all?

Only the ancient ones are gonna get it. Newly olds, I.e. people in around your age category will sadly miss out

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:49 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:40 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:44 pm
I was

So they are giving it to the older and not giving it to the younger after all?

Only the ancient ones are gonna get it. Newly olds, I.e. people in around your age category will sadly miss out

You cut.

EU blocks 3,100,000 Oxford vaccines being exported to Australia

https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SL4N2LZ1M3

79 clots and 19 deaths now and 'the link is getting firmer'

Surprising...suspended use for under 30s.

Good thing is they will be using newer vaccines on them where we also have no idea about the side effects

All medicines have potential side effects, it’s why you sign a disclaimer before an operation. The risk is 4 in a million, you are more likely to die walking down the street. And how many more would be dead if the vaccine had not been given.

Story of O wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:46 pm All medicines have potential side effects, it’s why you sign a disclaimer before an operation. The risk is 4 in a million, you are more likely to die walking down the street. And how many more would be dead if the vaccine had not been given.

What if you don’t know what the side effects are or the numbers they effect is still emerging?

Story of O wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:46 pm All medicines have potential side effects, it’s why you sign a disclaimer before an operation. The risk is 4 in a million, you are more likely to die walking down the street. And how many more would be dead if the vaccine had not been given.

What are the odds of dying walking down the street?

Better to say 1 in 250000 than 4 in a million.

Can someone please confirm:

The risks of blood clots are the same in everyone regardless of their age. It's just that the benefit from the vaccination are greater in those over 30, so it's worth taking the risk.

Is that correct?

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:05 pm Can someone please confirm:

The risks of blood clots are the same in everyone regardless of their age. It's just that the benefit from the vaccination are greater in those over 30, so it's worth taking the risk.

Is that correct?

Yeah I believe so.

I thought they said they were gonna use the morderna vaccine on younger people about 3 weeks ago anyway?

Probably just a good excuse to stop the sheep worrying about the fact it also sterilises you, which don’t matter for the olds.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:07 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:05 pm Can someone please confirm:

The risks of blood clots are the same in everyone regardless of their age. It's just that the benefit from the vaccination are greater in those over 30, so it's worth taking the risk.

Is that correct?

Yeah I believe so.

I thought they said they were gonna use the morderna vaccine on younger people about 3 weeks ago anyway?

So a 40 something in excellent health, with no medical conditions, and fitter than the vast majority of 30 year olds, probably shouldn't bother either, should they?