Independent Leyton Orient Forum

faldO wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 10:39 pm Keir Starmer has handed over the strategically important British overseas territory the Chagos Islands - where the military base on Diego Garcia is - to Mauritius. The controversial agreement will cost the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds and will see the UK paying Mauritius until as late as 2164.

It means that for the first time in more than 200 years, the sun will finally set on the British Empire. The location of the Chagos Islands in the Indian Ocean meant that at any point of the day, at least part of Britain or its territories would be in daylight. When the islands are finally handed over, this will no longer be true.

Starmer has also evaded questions about whether the Falklands and Gibraltar are next.

Shambles

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 12:52 pm Sue Gray resigns as chief of staff, shambles

Utter shambles

faldO wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 1:28 pm Doubts grow over Labour’s VAT plan for private schools - confusion over 1 January start date as unions, tax experts and school leaders say it is unworkable

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... te-schools

The Treasury on Saturday night refused to confirm that the plan to impose 20% VAT on private school fees would go ahead from 1 January, as confirmed by the chancellor, Rachel Reeves, in July, instead saying it would be introduced “as soon as possible”. Later, however, after publication of this story, the Treasury changed its line and said it was planning to stick by the 1 January deadline.

Was it you Donut, who was gloating after the last election saying that there would be another 8-12 years more of the Tories?

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 6:41 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 10:39 pm Keir Starmer has handed over the strategically important British overseas territory the Chagos Islands - where the military base on Diego Garcia is - to Mauritius. The controversial agreement will cost the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds and will see the UK paying Mauritius until as late as 2164.

It means that for the first time in more than 200 years, the sun will finally set on the British Empire. The location of the Chagos Islands in the Indian Ocean meant that at any point of the day, at least part of Britain or its territories would be in daylight. When the islands are finally handed over, this will no longer be true.

Starmer has also evaded questions about whether the Falklands and Gibraltar are next.

Shambles

Let’s not forget this was started by the last government

Properly weird flex for people who voted Tory last time, then again (or reform) to call all these minor blips a “shambles”.

By absolutely zero means am I Team Starmer but wasn't it James Cleverly, the Tory Foreign Secretary who set the final steps over the return of Chagos in motion?

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 7:20 pm Properly weird flex for people who voted Tory last time, then again (or reform) to call all these minor blips a “shambles”.

What if you’ve voted Lib Dem for the last three elections? Are you then allowed to point out poor management/decisions in government?

Asking for a friend

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 7:55 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 7:20 pm Properly weird flex for people who voted Tory last time, then again (or reform) to call all these minor blips a “shambles”.

What if you’ve voted Lib Dem for the last three elections? Are you then allowed to point out poor management/decisions in government?

Asking for a friend

You’re allowed. But your friend has clearly shown that they aren’t a very good of politics so should stay out of it

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 7:20 pm Properly weird flex for people who voted Tory last time, then again (or reform) to call all these minor blips a “shambles”.

Minor blips.

Utter shambles. No getting away from it. One thing after another, dropping like a stone in the polls and so quickly. Worst performance by an election winning PM ever. More unpopular than Sunak. Minor blip. Best joke ever, after Starmer that is.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 7:21 pm By absolutely zero means am I Team Starmer but wasn't it James Cleverly, the Tory Foreign Secretary who set the final steps over the return of Chagos in motion?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy7 ... %20%22weak,

Former foreign secretary James Cleverly described the move as "weak, weak, weak"

So no, I can't see how it would have anything to do with him.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:27 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 7:20 pm Properly weird flex for people who voted Tory last time, then again (or reform) to call all these minor blips a “shambles”.

Minor blips.

Utter shambles. No getting away from it. One thing after another, dropping like a stone in the polls and so quickly. Worst performance by an election winning PM ever. More unpopular than Sunak. Minor blip. Best joke ever, after Starmer that is.

Are you ok?

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:30 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 7:21 pm By absolutely zero means am I Team Starmer but wasn't it James Cleverly, the Tory Foreign Secretary who set the final steps over the return of Chagos in motion?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy7 ... %20%22weak,

Former foreign secretary James Cleverly described the move as "weak, weak, weak"

So no, I can't see how it would have anything to do with him.

No, you're right, silly me!

https://questions-statements.parliament ... 03/hcws354

Oops - Jimmy Dimly strikes again.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:36 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:27 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 7:20 pm Properly weird flex for people who voted Tory last time, then again (or reform) to call all these minor blips a “shambles”.

Minor blips.

Utter shambles. No getting away from it. One thing after another, dropping like a stone in the polls and so quickly. Worst performance by an election winning PM ever. More unpopular than Sunak. Minor blip. Best joke ever, after Starmer that is.

Are you ok?

You should be directing that question to Starmer and his bunch of hypocrites. Me? I’m fine thanks for asking, it’s the country that’s in the crap.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 10:21 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:36 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:27 pm

Minor blips.

Utter shambles. No getting away from it. One thing after another, dropping like a stone in the polls and so quickly. Worst performance by an election winning PM ever. More unpopular than Sunak. Minor blip. Best joke ever, after Starmer that is.

Are you ok?

You should be directing that question to Starmer and his bunch of hypocrites. Me? I’m fine thanks for asking, it’s the country that’s in the crap.

Agreed. That’s what 14 years of the Tories does for a Country.

I'm seeing a lot of this sort of behaviour - traditional, dyed in the wool Tory-voting Labour-haters (even though their socio-economic status means they shouldn't be) who understandably felt they couldn't vote for the tories any longer, but didn't comprehend a vote for Reform or Lib Dems would mean a Labour government...

I genuinely feel for them, they must be in total turmoil right now.

Seeing as Dohnut is a bit confused, here’s a Robert Peston piece that might help put him straight on a few things here.


There seems to be significant faux outrage from Tory leadership candidates Cleverly and Tugendhat about the Starmer government's transfer of the Chagos islands to Mauritius.
Official sources tell me the transfer would have happened in materially the same
way at roughly the same time if Sunak had somehow won the election.
The point is that the transfer was being negotiated on the recent Tory government's watch - including by Cleverly as foreign secretary and then by Cameron - and the deadline was in effect set by Washington.
I am told that President Biden wanted the deal done before the 5
November presidential election. Biden wanted certainty about the future of the US military base on the Chagossian island of Diego Garcia, just in case Donald Trump were to win the election.
For confirmation that the deal was clinched on a timetable and in a style to suit the US administration, see Biden's statement that "it is a clear demonstration that through diplomacy and partnership, countries can overcome longstanding historical challenges to reach peaceful and mutually beneficial outcomes".
mutually venenciar outcomes .
Biden pointed out that the agreement between the UK and Mauritius meant the US had secured "the effective operation of the joint [military] facility on Diego Garcia into the next century."
It is therefore curious Tugendhat should describe the transfer as
"leaving our allies" exposed when the UK's most important ally, America, has welcomed it.
And Cleverly's denigration of Starmer as "weak, weak, weak" for formalising it seems eccentric when the negotiations with Mauritius were in full swing when he was in the cabinet.
As for Liz Truss's assertion that Boris Johnson is to blame, I am told that Johnson was the last PM to wholly oppose giving up sovereignty over Chagos, and that the talks did not start properly till she was PM.
If anyone in the Tory party wants to know the nitty gritty of all this, possibly they could ask for an introduction from the former minister Lord Frost - because his spouse Harriet Matthews has been the lead official negotiator for the foreign office on the Chagos treaty with Mauritius.

Dohnut must be the most consistent boarder of all time. It has got to be difficult to get it so spectacularly wrong every time. Well done sir!

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:53 am I'm seeing a lot of this sort of behaviour - traditional, dyed in the wool Tory-voting Labour-haters (even though their socio-economic status means they shouldn't be) who understandably felt they couldn't vote for the tories any longer, but didn't comprehend a vote for Reform or Lib Dems would mean a Labour government...

I genuinely feel for them, they must be in total turmoil right now.

Thick. It's called being thick.

I'm nicer than you. I prefer to believe they're uninformed and/or uneducated.

BoniO wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:52 am Dohnut must be the most consistent boarder of all time. It has got to be difficult to get it so spectacularly wrong every time. Well done sir!

Not sure why you're bothering. It's like having a debate with a whoopee cushion.

Stowaway wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:30 am Seeing as Dohnut is a bit confused, here’s a Robert Peston piece that might help put him straight on a few things here.


There seems to be significant faux outrage from Tory leadership candidates Cleverly and Tugendhat about the Starmer government's transfer of the Chagos islands to Mauritius.
Official sources tell me the transfer would have happened in materially the same
way at roughly the same time if Sunak had somehow won the election.
The point is that the transfer was being negotiated on the recent Tory government's watch - including by Cleverly as foreign secretary and then by Cameron - and the deadline was in effect set by Washington.
.
.
.
If anyone in the Tory party wants to know the nitty gritty of all this, possibly they could ask for an introduction from the former minister Lord Frost - because his spouse Harriet Matthews has been the lead official negotiator for the foreign office on the Chagos treaty with Mauritius.

This is faux outrage about faux outrage...

And some of Peston's statements, like the one about Cameron, are misleading.

I don’t think Peston is outraged in any way at all. He’s merely pointing out facts.

While you’re here, feel free to point out which parts of it are misleading.

Admin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 12:20 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:52 am Dohnut must be the most consistent boarder of all time. It has got to be difficult to get it so spectacularly wrong every time. Well done sir!

Not sure why you're bothering. It's like having a debate with a whoopee cushion.

No whoopee from me. Just find it amusing at people trying to excuse/minimise the current farcical state of the Labour party. 100 days in and everything that could go wrong, has. I use the word shambles. I’m being kind. Not just my view when you look at various polls. People need to face up to the shambolic start of the Labour years. One hope is these cock-ups soften the next budget a little as they try and get some credibility back.

Starmer is just out of his depth.