Page 246 of 342
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:40 pm
by tuffers#1
George wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:07 pm
I have a house in Spain I can’t visit. I know the figures and how they have dealt with it.
Tuffers , I am not defending the UK’s policies. I am simply saying that it is difficult to compare different countries. Every country has done it differently. But I doubt comparative figures , come the end of this , will vary hugely.
My Sister has a 4 bed villa in Portugal .
With an upstairs patio & a lovely big garden & pool .
What has that or your house in Spain got to do With Corona Virus George ?
The Uk could & should have responded better to it Gorge !
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:16 pm
by George M
What it’s got to do with it is that you presented me with info from Spain. I know what’s happening in Spain. Trust me , it’s no better there.
How could we have kept this virus at bay. We could never have a total lockdown. We had a partial spring lockdown, had it under control, numbers rose and we are where we are. It would be impossible to keep it out of the UK.
We are a densely populated country made up of a highly mobile population and are suffering as a result.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:23 pm
by Max B Gold
George wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:16 pm
What it’s got to do with it is that you presented me with info from Spain. I know what’s happening in Spain. Trust me , it’s no better there.
How could we have kept this virus at bay. We could never have a total lockdown. We had a partial spring lockdown, had it under control, numbers rose and we are where we are. It would be impossible to keep it out of the UK.
We are a densely populated country made up of a highly mobile population and are suffering as a result.
Your continuing concern about over population is noted and I'm happy to tell you that due to Tory government inaction and incompetence there are over 100,000 fewer than this time last year.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:28 pm
by George M
Thanks for the reminder. Unfortunately , to make any difference to our impending doom , it would need to be substantially more. But I take your point
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:30 pm
by George M
I would rather our population density was resolved in a more civilised and consensual manner
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:31 pm
by tuffers#1
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:23 pm
George wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:16 pm
What it’s got to do with it is that you presented me with info from Spain. I know what’s happening in Spain. Trust me , it’s no better there.
How could we have kept this virus at bay. We could never have a total lockdown. We had a partial spring lockdown, had it under control, numbers rose and we are where we are. It would be impossible to keep it out of the UK.
We are a densely populated country made up of a highly mobile population and are suffering as a result.
Your continuing concern about over population is noted and I'm happy to tell you that due to Tory government inaction and incompetence there are over 100,000 fewer than this time last year.
Exactly Max
Itll be 110,000 before the weekend as well .
I'd reckon closer to 150,000 by the end of this .
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:38 pm
by George M
Agreed. The final totals , whenever that may be , will make grim reading
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:14 pm
by Rich Tea Wellin
George wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:16 pm
What it’s got to do with it is that you presented me with info from Spain. I know what’s happening in Spain. Trust me , it’s no better there.
How could we have kept this virus at bay. We could never have a total lockdown. We had a partial spring lockdown, had it under control, numbers rose and we are where we are. It would be impossible to keep it out of the UK.
We are a densely populated country made up of a highly mobile population and are suffering as a result.
We’re also an island who got about 6 weeks notice from
China and 2 weeks notice from mainland Europe. There’s plenty we could have done to limit the spread and the deaths.
But the economy was prioritised with short term thinking, and that’s f*cked as well now.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:38 pm
by George M
I’m afraid that is just not true. The Virus was detected in France in Dec 2019 . It is highly likely that it was in the UK by January long before we had any serious warnings.
We are an Island only in the Geographical sense, not in an economical one.
There is no way we could have prevented this. We , perhaps, could have slowed it further.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:45 pm
by Dunners
I wouldn't be surprised if the future enquiry confirms the likelihood that Covid was already in the UK in December 2019. There's plenty of accounts from people who were hospitalised with the symptoms at that time, just that there wasn't a formal diagnosis then.
But that doesn't change the fact that both China's initial handling of the outbreak, and the UK government's response, were left wanting.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:18 pm
by George M
Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:45 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if the future enquiry confirms the likelihood that Covid was already in the UK in December 2019. There's plenty of accounts from people who were hospitalised with the symptoms at that time, just that there wasn't a formal diagnosis then.
But that doesn't change the fact that both China's initial handling of the outbreak, and the UK government's response, were left wanting.
Completely agree. The real issue here is the cover up by the Chinese and the subsequent delays in informing world governments. The speed at which it spread around the World would have made it difficult to prevent it reaching European soil
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:25 pm
by Max B Gold
Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:45 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if the future enquiry confirms the likelihood that Covid was already in the UK in December 2019. There's plenty of accounts from people who were hospitalised with the symptoms at that time, just that there wasn't a formal diagnosis then.
But that doesn't change the fact that both China's initial handling of the outbreak, and the UK government's response, were left wanting.
End of December 2019. That's when I had it.
Blinding headaches, high temperature, absolutely no energy, went to bed for three days. Didn't recover until end of Jan.
I usually work through even a heavy flu but not this one. I was probably the first person to get the Covids in the UK, if not Europe.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:43 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
George wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:38 pm
There is no way we could have prevented this. We , perhaps, could have slowed it further.
There's no way we could have prevented 100,00 deaths and a trashed economy?
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:44 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:25 pm
Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:45 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if the future enquiry confirms the likelihood that Covid was already in the UK in December 2019. There's plenty of accounts from people who were hospitalised with the symptoms at that time, just that there wasn't a formal diagnosis then.
But that doesn't change the fact that both China's initial handling of the outbreak, and the UK government's response, were left wanting.
End of December 2019. That's when I had it.
Blinding headaches, high temperature, absolutely no energy, went to bed for three days. Didn't recover until end of Jan.
I usually work through even a heavy flu but not this one. I was probably the first person to get the Covids in the UK, if not Europe.
I had it November 2018.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:16 pm
by George M
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:43 pm
George wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:38 pm
There is no way we could have prevented this. We , perhaps, could have slowed it further.
There's no way we could have prevented 100,00 deaths and a trashed economy?
I don’t believe so but would be happy to have your reasons for believing otherwise.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:31 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
George wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:16 pm
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:43 pm
George wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:38 pm
There is no way we could have prevented this. We , perhaps, could have slowed it further.
There's no way we could have prevented 100,00 deaths and a trashed economy?
I don’t believe so but would be happy to have your reasons for believing otherwise.
I don't know. Maybe we could have done things like what some of the other countries did who didn't end up in the worst position in the world?
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:50 pm
by Max B Gold
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:43 pm
George wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:38 pm
There is no way we could have prevented this. We , perhaps, could have slowed it further.
There's no way we could have prevented 100,00 deaths and a trashed economy?
Leave it mate. He wants the deaths because he believes we are over populated.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:50 pm
by Dunners
We could have implemented much tougher restrictions from the start. Looking back at news footage from early 2020, it was clear that Ministers were gambling that this wouldn't take hold, and a pattern throughout has been the government's reluctance to implement decisions at the right time.
Personally, I don't think it was ever feasible for us to fully copy the likes of NZ, but we could certainly have reduced the fatalities. Probably by quite a lot. There would have been other consequences to this approach, of course, which is why a retrospective compare and contrast exercise would be helpful in revising our plan for the next time something like this happens.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:53 pm
by Max B Gold
Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:50 pm
We could have implemented much tougher restrictions from the start. Looking back at news footage from early 2020, it was clear that Ministers were gambling that this wouldn't take hold, and a pattern throughout has been the government's reluctance to implement decisions at the right time.
Personally, I don't think it was ever feasible for us to fully copy the likes of NZ, but we could certainly have reduced the fatalities. Probably by quite a lot. There would have been other consequences to this approach, of course, which is why a retrospective compare and contrast exercise would be helpful in revising our plan for the next time something like this happens.
It wasn't reluctance. It was a series of flawed decisions taken on the basis of creating the psuedo science myth of "herd immunity"
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:56 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Survival of the fittest, taking it on the chin.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:04 pm
by Dunners
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:53 pm
Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:50 pm
We could have implemented much tougher restrictions from the start. Looking back at news footage from early 2020, it was clear that Ministers were gambling that this wouldn't take hold, and a pattern throughout has been the government's reluctance to implement decisions at the right time.
Personally, I don't think it was ever feasible for us to fully copy the likes of NZ, but we could certainly have reduced the fatalities. Probably by quite a lot. There would have been other consequences to this approach, of course, which is why a retrospective compare and contrast exercise would be helpful in revising our plan for the next time something like this happens.
It wasn't reluctance. It was a series of flawed decisions taken on the basis of creating the psuedo science myth of "herd immunity"
Herd immunity isn't in itself pseudo science. It's how vaccination programmes work. But, yeah, I reckon it was one of the options presented to them and they thought that it looked like the most doable, as all the others were going to be very hard work.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:09 pm
by Max B Gold
Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:04 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:53 pm
Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:50 pm
We could have implemented much tougher restrictions from the start. Looking back at news footage from early 2020, it was clear that Ministers were gambling that this wouldn't take hold, and a pattern throughout has been the government's reluctance to implement decisions at the right time.
Personally, I don't think it was ever feasible for us to fully copy the likes of NZ, but we could certainly have reduced the fatalities. Probably by quite a lot. There would have been other consequences to this approach, of course, which is why a retrospective compare and contrast exercise would be helpful in revising our plan for the next time something like this happens.
It wasn't reluctance. It was a series of flawed decisions taken on the basis of creating the psuedo science myth of "herd immunity"
Herd immunity isn't in itself pseudo science. It's how vaccination programmes work. But, yeah, I reckon it was one of the options presented to them and they thought that it looked like the most doable, as all the others were going to be very hard work.
In this context it is. For it not to be pseudo science there has to be a vaccine.
There wasn't one at the time the Tories decided to kill over 100,000 (and rising).
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:11 pm
by George M
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:09 pm
Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:04 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:53 pm
It wasn't reluctance. It was a series of flawed decisions taken on the basis of creating the psuedo science myth of "herd immunity"
Herd immunity isn't in itself pseudo science. It's how vaccination programmes work. But, yeah, I reckon it was one of the options presented to them and they thought that it looked like the most doable, as all the others were going to be very hard work.
In this context it is. For it not to be pseudo science there has to be a vaccine.
There wasn't one at the time the Tories decided to kill over 100,000 (and rising).
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:18 pm
by George M
Absolute nonsense. So did the USA , India , Mexico , Brazil , choose to do the same. I am afraid whatever the UK government had done , we would have ended up in the same place. Nobody could have predicted this outcome and come up with a viable plan to lesson its impact. Not even you.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:22 pm
by George M
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:50 pm
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:43 pm
George wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:38 pm
There is no way we could have prevented this. We , perhaps, could have slowed it further.
There's no way we could have prevented 100,00 deaths and a trashed economy?
Leave it mate. He wants the deaths because he believes we are over populated.
If you put too many chickens in a battery unit , sooner or later a virus will emerge , spread quickly , and wipe the weak out. I don’t care if you don’t believe the problems overpopulation brings. The evidence has been there long enough.