Independent Leyton Orient Forum

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:12 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 3:42 pm Porky sausages I assume. Rather than his previous porky pies?. What a joke of a speech, the unintentional joke the best of all. Free gear kier at his finest.

Just found out he took £20k to help his son study for GCSEs in peace and quiet. Two tier Kier at his finest again.

Where did "just find this out" then? Bloke down the pub or some lying Tory rag? Even if it was true, whilst not great, it would still be totally insignificant when compared with the dirty thieving Tories that you doubtless support. They robbed us blind and took the p*ss on an industrial scale. Starmer is a mere amateur compared to those corrupt bar-stewards.

Maybe you should just face it. You lost. Get used to it.

norfolkO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:23 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:12 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 3:42 pm Porky sausages I assume. Rather than his previous porky pies?. What a joke of a speech, the unintentional joke the best of all. Free gear kier at his finest.

Just found out he took £20k to help his son study for GCSEs in peace and quiet. Two tier Kier at his finest again.

Where did "just find this out" then? Bloke down the pub or some lying Tory rag? Even if it was true, whilst not great, it would still be totally insignificant when compared with the dirty thieving Tories that you doubtless support. They robbed us blind and took the p*ss on an industrial scale. Starmer is a mere amateur compared to those corrupt bar-stewards.

Maybe you should just face it. You lost. Get used to it.

It's true.

It's not about the monetary value, it's about standards and values and the "it's ok when we do it" attitude of Labour.

You're right that Starmer is a mere amateur though.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:37 pm Happy to be put right on any points I'm unsure of, but isn't the issue with the way things have to be declared?

For instance, Starmer didn't "took £20k to help his son study.." as Prez Biz is trying to suggest. What I believe actually happened was that the Starmers stayed at a friend's house for a few weeks, and that this has to be declared. And, when submitting any such declaration, you have to attribute a value to the benefit.

Obviously, you don't want to be accused of under-valuing the benefit of anything you've received, because you'll then be criticised for that. So they tend to go high with their estimates. And, in this case, the value that was attached to the benefit of staying at a friend's house was £20K. Obviously, this is just a useless figure, but that doesn't appear to be of any concern to the right wingers and Novara cranks.

Has anyone actually broken any rules here? If the argument is that the rules need to be changed so that no politician can receive any gifts, freebies etc, then fine. So be it. But, if the rules state that they can, and so long as they are complying with those rules, then what's the big deal?

This just seems to be another of those issues that arise from time to time, when journalists try and whip up a story to keep themselves relevant, and the usual cranks get a chance to pile in do the same. But nobody outside of those circles really cares.

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:31 pm

norfolkO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:23 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:12 pm

Where did "just find this out" then? Bloke down the pub or some lying Tory rag? Even if it was true, whilst not great, it would still be totally insignificant when compared with the dirty thieving Tories that you doubtless support. They robbed us blind and took the p*ss on an industrial scale. Starmer is a mere amateur compared to those corrupt bar-stewards.

Maybe you should just face it. You lost. Get used to it.

It's true.

It's not about the monetary value, it's about standards and values and the "it's ok when we do it" attitude of Labour.

You're right that Starmer is a mere amateur though.

Fair comment. I'm not a lover of Starmer that's for sure and I agree that Labour should set a higher standard of behaviour than the Tories (that really can't be so difficult can it).

But it is amusing watching the villification of Starmer in the right wing press when his wrong-doings are minor infringements compared to the Tory self-serving scumbags. Almost like the Tory's are bad losers or something.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:46 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:37 pm Happy to be put right on any points I'm unsure of, but isn't the issue with the way things have to be declared?

For instance, Starmer didn't "took £20k to help his son study.." as Prez Biz is trying to suggest. What I believe actually happened was that the Starmers stayed at a friend's house for a few weeks, and that this has to be declared. And, when submitting any such declaration, you have to attribute a value to the benefit.

Obviously, you don't want to be accused of under-valuing the benefit of anything you've received, because you'll then be criticised for that. So they tend to go high with their estimates. And, in this case, the value that was attached to the benefit of staying at a friend's house was £20K. Obviously, this is just a useless figure, but that doesn't appear to be of any concern to the right wingers and Novara cranks.

Has anyone actually broken any rules here? If the argument is that the rules need to be changed so that no politician can receive any gifts, freebies etc, then fine. So be it. But, if the rules state that they can, and so long as they are complying with those rules, then what's the big deal?

This just seems to be another of those issues that arise from time to time, when journalists try and whip up a story to keep themselves relevant, and the usual cranks get a chance to pile in do the same. But nobody outside of those circles really cares.

So Dunners is now an apologist for bribes too. The rightwards shift continues apace.

Forget the rules of the old parliamentary club made by the very members of that elite so that they could accept lavish gifts , accept second jobs, fiddle expenses etc etc. These are not something for nothing gifts (eg. Google provided £10,000 of hospitality to senior Labour figures & the party ditched plans to raise the Digital Services Tax)

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 6:39 pm Love all this “ well the Tories did worse” and Labour have done nothing wrong stuff. Labour used the “clean open transparent” ticket in a holier than though programme. It’s clear they are a snouts in the trough bunch after all. Masters of the free gifts. I’m certainly not defending the Tories just the raging hypocrisy of Labour. Starmer being ridiculed around the world, his approval ratings plummeting. Already sending out an I’m in charge message. Even his bosses in the Union bitching.

Folks it’s a frigging joke right now. A shambles. And we all know it.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 6:46 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 6:39 pm Love all this “ well the Tories did worse” and Labour have done nothing wrong stuff. Labour used the “clean open transparent” ticket in a holier than though programme. It’s clear they are a snouts in the trough bunch after all. Masters of the free gifts. I’m certainly not defending the Tories just the raging hypocrisy of Labour. Starmer being ridiculed around the world, his approval ratings plummeting. Already sending out an I’m in charge message. Even his bosses in the Union bitching.

Folks it’s a frigging joke right now. A shambles. And we all know it.

Nothing like the shambles when the Tories were in.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 6:39 pm Love all this “ well the Tories did worse” and Labour have done nothing wrong stuff. Labour used the “clean open transparent” ticket in a holier than though programme. It’s clear they are a snouts in the trough bunch after all. Masters of the free gifts. I’m certainly not defending the Tories just the raging hypocrisy of Labour. Starmer being ridiculed around the world, his approval ratings plummeting. Already sending out an I’m in charge message. Even his bosses in the Union bitching.

Folks it’s a frigging joke right now. A shambles. And we all know it.

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 7:40 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 6:39 pm Love all this “ well the Tories did worse” and Labour have done nothing wrong stuff. Labour used the “clean open transparent” ticket in a holier than though programme. It’s clear they are a snouts in the trough bunch after all. Masters of the free gifts. I’m certainly not defending the Tories just the raging hypocrisy of Labour. Starmer being ridiculed around the world, his approval ratings plummeting. Already sending out an I’m in charge message. Even his bosses in the Union bitching.

Folks it’s a frigging joke right now. A shambles. And we all know it.

Mate, the current government are making mistakes, and they need to clean up their act with regards to free gifts from “interested parties”. I guess they’re also a bit rusty after 14 years of Tory grifters running the Country.
However, they are a million miles away from the overt corruption, arrogance and self-serving greed of the Tory scumbags we just kicked out. Anyone who chooses not to recognise that is either thick as 2 planks or a right wing scumbag - which one are you?

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 7:40 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 6:39 pm Love all this “ well the Tories did worse” and Labour have done nothing wrong stuff. Labour used the “clean open transparent” ticket in a holier than though programme. It’s clear they are a snouts in the trough bunch after all. Masters of the free gifts. I’m certainly not defending the Tories just the raging hypocrisy of Labour. Starmer being ridiculed around the world, his approval ratings plummeting. Already sending out an I’m in charge message. Even his bosses in the Union bitching.

Folks it’s a frigging joke right now. A shambles. And we all know it.

Mate, the current government are making mistakes, and they need to clean up their act with regards to free gifts from “interested parties”. I guess they’re also a bit rusty after 14 years of Tory grifters running the Country.
However, they are a million miles away from the overt corruption, arrogance and self-serving greed of the Tory scumbags we just kicked out. Anyone who chooses not to recognise that is either thick as 2 planks or a right wing scumbag - which one are you?

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 7:40 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 6:39 pm Love all this “ well the Tories did worse” and Labour have done nothing wrong stuff. Labour used the “clean open transparent” ticket in a holier than though programme. It’s clear they are a snouts in the trough bunch after all. Masters of the free gifts. I’m certainly not defending the Tories just the raging hypocrisy of Labour. Starmer being ridiculed around the world, his approval ratings plummeting. Already sending out an I’m in charge message. Even his bosses in the Union bitching.

Folks it’s a frigging joke right now. A shambles. And we all know it.

Mate, the current government are making mistakes, and they need to clean up their act with regards to free gifts from “interested parties”. I guess they’re also a bit rusty after 14 years of Tory grifters running the Country.
However, they are a million miles away from the overt corruption, arrogance and self-serving greed of the Tory scumbags we just kicked out. Anyone who chooses not to recognise that is either thick as 2 planks or a right wing scumbag - which one are you?

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:37 pm Happy to be put right on any points I'm unsure of, but isn't the issue with the way things have to be declared?

For instance, Starmer didn't "took £20k to help his son study.." as Prez Biz is trying to suggest. What I believe actually happened was that the Starmers stayed at a friend's house for a few weeks, and that this has to be declared. And, when submitting any such declaration, you have to attribute a value to the benefit.

Obviously, you don't want to be accused of under-valuing the benefit of anything you've received, because you'll then be criticised for that. So they tend to go high with their estimates. And, in this case, the value that was attached to the benefit of staying at a friend's house was £20K. Obviously, this is just a useless figure, but that doesn't appear to be of any concern to the right wingers and Novara cranks.

Has anyone actually broken any rules here? If the argument is that the rules need to be changed so that no politician can receive any gifts, freebies etc, then fine. So be it. But, if the rules state that they can, and so long as they are complying with those rules, then what's the big deal?

This just seems to be another of those issues that arise from time to time, when journalists try and whip up a story to keep themselves relevant, and the usual cranks get a chance to pile in do the same. But nobody outside of those circles really cares.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:15 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:37 pm Happy to be put right on any points I'm unsure of, but isn't the issue with the way things have to be declared?

For instance, Starmer didn't "took £20k to help his son study.." as Prez Biz is trying to suggest. What I believe actually happened was that the Starmers stayed at a friend's house for a few weeks, and that this has to be declared. And, when submitting any such declaration, you have to attribute a value to the benefit.

Obviously, you don't want to be accused of under-valuing the benefit of anything you've received, because you'll then be criticised for that. So they tend to go high with their estimates. And, in this case, the value that was attached to the benefit of staying at a friend's house was £20K. Obviously, this is just a useless figure, but that doesn't appear to be of any concern to the right wingers and Novara cranks.

Has anyone actually broken any rules here? If the argument is that the rules need to be changed so that no politician can receive any gifts, freebies etc, then fine. So be it. But, if the rules state that they can, and so long as they are complying with those rules, then what's the big deal?

This just seems to be another of those issues that arise from time to time, when journalists try and whip up a story to keep themselves relevant, and the usual cranks get a chance to pile in do the same. But nobody outside of those circles really cares.

Well I for one am amazed to see you come down on the side of those receiving bribes/freebies or whatever you’d like to call them.

J1MB0B wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:59 pm I’d like to know how long it takes to get embedded in the corruption in politics. When they become an MP are they already so used to freebies they can’t see how wrong it is to normal people?