Probably all the Countries that are giving the second jab when it's meant to be given? Rather than at 12 weeks after the first one.
You're saying our scientists are wrong then?
Possibly, probably, who knows for sure. We do know that the UK is going against the advice of the manufacturers without, apparently, knowing for sure that moving from a 3 week gap to a 12 week gap will work as effectively. Whether this is really a decision made by scientists or politicians is unproven I would suggest.
Aren’t our scientists against the gap the government have introduced?
Panto time! Oh yes it does, it's his interpretation on twitter, and you're not addressing the obvious weaknesses in the datasource.
He's referencing the government's own statistics. They've not come from "Hunt himself".
The source is the only one we have to go on unless you have another one? Interesting that you think the reality might be better than the reported numbers though.
Criticise T&T unless it suits your argument then suggest they're doing better than they claim. How contrarian.
Yes, he's referencing the government stats - but it's stated as being experimental data only and, furthermore, based on the ridiculed T&T system.
I don't need another source ta. I'm just commenting that this "data" is unproven and highly dubious given it's based on the T&T system.
Your third point is very strange. I've always criticised the T&T system. It's circa £22 Billion worth of garbage.
Probably all the Countries that are giving the second jab when it's meant to be given? Rather than at 12 weeks after the first one.
You're saying our scientists are wrong then?
Possibly, probably, who knows for sure. We do know that the UK is going against the advice of the manufacturers without, apparently, knowing for sure that moving from a 3 week gap to a 12 week gap will work as effectively. Whether this is really a decision made by scientists or politicians is unproven I would suggest.
I'm really quite confused by the UK position on the time lag between the 1st and 2nd doses.
On the one hand, I listened to Chris Whitty explain that it was better to have twice as many people covered to, say, 70%, than to have half that number vaccinated with both doses and covered to 95%. It makes sense to have, say, 200,000 with 70% protection than 100,000 with 95% - and I get the fact that this should mean that as a country we've got better overall defence in that case.
On the other hand, I don't understand why the majority of other countries, the manufacturers and the WHO don't also "see" that advantage. Yet again, it seems the UK is trying something different to the rest of the world - and so far in this pandemic that approach hasn't seen terribly good outcomes (excepting licensing the vaccine a little earlier than most). I always thought science was science - shouldn't OUR scientists - looking at the same evidence and data as the WHO, Pfizer, other countries etc - come to the same conclusions as their whitecoat bods?
I honestly hope that we're doing the right thing pushing the time lag to 12 weeks - assuming the second doses happen and don't slip further - and I get the explanations given, but past experience does concern me.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:27 am
by BoniO
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:17 am
Havent heard that. Prove it?
Sage are against it. Whitty and Vallance support it but they sold their souls to the devil some time ago.
Panto time! Oh yes it does, it's his interpretation on twitter, and you're not addressing the obvious weaknesses in the datasource.
He's referencing the government's own statistics. They've not come from "Hunt himself".
The source is the only one we have to go on unless you have another one? Interesting that you think the reality might be better than the reported numbers though.
Criticise T&T unless it suits your argument then suggest they're doing better than they claim. How contrarian.
Yes, he's referencing the government stats - but it's stated as being experimental data only and, furthermore, based on the ridiculed T&T system.
I don't need another source ta. I'm just commenting that this "data" is unproven and highly dubious given it's based on the T&T system.
Your third point is very strange. I've always criticised the T&T system. It's circa £22 Billion worth of garbage.
The survey that estimates how many people aren't properly self isolating wasn't conducted by T&T .
If the original point you wanted to make was, "Haha you believe track and trace?" Probably best to have started with it instead of wasting my time.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:46 am
by BoniO
Oh dear, oh dear. You do make me laugh sometimes. Below is taken direct from your cut & paste of Hunts Twitter:
"Or in absolute numbers, if Cab Office survey is accurate & translated onto the latest T&T data"
So. it's a survey taken by the Cab Office (which Hunt himself prefaces with "if accurate" - always a good sign) and translated onto T&T data (so T&T data is used to draw his conclusions) - this seems quite clear to me. I'm not really sure how much more info you need?
Anyway, I'll leave it there. Don't want to waste my time as I have important things to do, like make a cup of tea, make some toast, etc, etc.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:50 am
by Currywurst and Chips
I've got all the info I need. You don't believe government statistics even when it shows they're doing awful. Wish I'd know that from the start and I wouldn't bothered to post the references
Thor wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:42 amIt’s being reported in respected German papers that the Oxford vaccine only has an 8% effective rate in over 65’s. Astra Zeneca deny the findings.
On a more serious note the EU has told Pfizer that it must inform them of any exports to third countries which includes us as they want the vaccine to be secured for their people over ours. The true light of the eu coming to the fore there.
If it is verified without doubt it’s only 8% then it’s hardly worth having that particular one if over 65
I have him on foe because of the shitposting he did with all the Trump stuff, but I see from the quote that Thor is doing his usual fake news sharing - combined with the cowardly "It's being reported" sub-clause to allow him to say "'I'm only the messenger".
I see too that Thor's post has had the effect of skewing, however slightly, a fellow boarders view of the value in taking the vaccine.
That's what fake news does - it's cumulative, it's insidious, it's needlessly fearmongering and it's f*cking dangerous. Just stop, eh?
Your link doesnt say anything about Sage being against it.
You're right. It mentions some concern from Sage members and that is echoed in other outlets. I've seen some other comments from Sage so I'll see what I can find.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:30 pm
by StillSpike
UpminsterO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:17 pm
I will ask my GP when the time arrives - I get the data and make an informed decision
I don't blame you at all, everyone should make an informed choice.
My point was that the fake news spread by Thor and his ilk create unnecessary worry and distrust.
It's not just being reported in German papers - it's in respected German papers (does that give the statement more weight - it's clearly the purpose of the word). The sentence doesn't even state there's a question or a possibility - it states right out that it 'only has an 8% effective rate'.
Your question to your GP about the report is fine - but maybe you wouldn't even be asking it if the fake news hadn't been peddled in the first place. I know my GP is thrilled every time he gets asked questions that have been prompted by some crackpot theory read on the internet. It's not the askers fault, it's the fault of whoever posted the crackpot theory.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:44 pm
by Mistadobalina
By his own admission, most of what Thor posts is bollox and when he gets called out on it, either says he's just opening up debate or as Spike says above, hides behind some crappy source. The constant drip drip drip of easily disprovable drivel makes a lot of these threads useless, because it's filled with posts that are either crackpot or intentionally disingenuous, with little way of distinguishing between the two. Probably the best example of Poe's Law on this board (I'm assuming Still Wrong and Oiram are full on fake persona's) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
UpminsterO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:17 pm
I will ask my GP when the time arrives - I get the data and make an informed decision
I don't blame you at all, everyone should make an informed choice.
My point was that the fake news spread by Thor and his ilk create unnecessary worry and distrust.
It's not just being reported in German papers - it's in respected German papers (does that give the statement more weight - it's clearly the purpose of the word). The sentence doesn't even state there's a question or a possibility - it states right out that it 'only has an 8% effective rate'.
Your question to your GP about the report is fine - but maybe you wouldn't even be asking it if the fake news hadn't been peddled in the first place. I know my GP is thrilled every time he gets asked questions that have been prompted by some crackpot theory read on the internet. It's not the askers fault, it's the fault of whoever posted the crackpot theory.
I couldn't agree more and it's why I sometimes feel the need to push back on some of the statements made by Thor and others like him. All the crap he writes does have an impact on others. He'll also write some more "reasonable" posts that make him seem a "normal guy, one of us" because then his fake news posts seem more acceptable. He and his kind need challenging that's for sure.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:56 pm
by Dunners
Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:44 pm
By his own admission, most of what Thor posts is bollox and when he gets called out on it, either says he's just opening up debate or as Spike says above, hides behind some crappy source. The constant drip drip drip of easily disprovable drivel makes a lot of these threads useless, because it's filled with posts that are either crackpot or intentionally disingenuous, with little way of distinguishing between the two. Probably the best example of Poe's Law on this board (I'm assuming Still Wrong and Oiram are full on fake persona's) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
Guy.just on the news has just said that really happened.on the.7th of
January if you count those who
Have Covid.as.primary cause on the.death.certificate
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:39 pm
by JimbO
Thor wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:42 am
It’s being reported in respected German papers that the Oxford vaccine only has an 8% effective rate in over 65’s. Astra Zeneca deny the findings.
On a more serious note the EU has told Pfizer that it must inform them of any exports to third countries which includes us as they want the vaccine to be secured for their people over ours. The true light of the eu coming to the fore there.
Thor if you go and do your research properly you'll see that is quite a big twisting of the facts especially about europe keeping vaccine for themselves.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:50 pm
by tuffers#1
Johnson says
As the Prime Minister of the Country if course i accept Responsibility for the governments actions .
An admission of Guilt ?
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:59 pm
by Still wrong
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:50 pm
Johnson says
As the Prime Minister of the Country if course i accept Responsibility for the governments actions .
An admission of Guilt ?
Or incompetence.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:13 pm
by Thor
Here you go Spike, just for you in your guardian bible.
What I quoted was correct and was published by said German publication, I also said Astra disputed the claims made. So far no conspiracy and no made up sh*t on my part.
During the day the position has moved on with the German government wading in as this threatened to become a diplomatic problem between the two countries. The 8% refers to the number of people over 65 who took part in the trails, although as you read through the respected publication and it is respected again I did not lie there either, still stand by there assertion.
So please read all and see what I said was correct and not made up as per spike.
Finally let me be clear, I have never told or suggested to anyone not to take the vaccine, let me be clear on that point. It’s up to each individual to do their own research and arrive at a position that they are comfortable with.
At first sight it appears that two things have been muddled in the reports,” said the statement. “Around 8% of participants in the AstraZeneca efficacy trials were aged between 56 and 69 years old, only 3- to 4% were over 70. This does not result in an efficacy of only 8% among seniors.”
So the respected paper made a mistake.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:30 pm
by Long slender neck
I recall they messed up the trials by not including any old people. What happened regarding that?
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:48 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
f*** Poe.
We had orange font long before 2005.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:08 pm
by Constanza
Off work till March 5th for me here in Ireland.
Running out of rooms to paint so hoping for better weather so I paint the garden as well.
.