Independent Leyton Orient Forum

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:06 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:59 pm

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:52 pm I suspect it’ll be Sunak now. The next GE seems like Labour’s to lose now

Somehow Tories still odds on to get most seats

Guess the starting point for Labour being at an 85 year low may be a factor

Not that this is ever a great conversation starter here, but considering that Truss, who is exceptional only for her mediocrity (at best) is likely to become prime minister within 18 months of publicly committing to scrap reform of the gender recognition act, and that Penny Mordant’s campaign faltered once it was shown that she was a weather vane on the subject, it might actually finally be worth some people actually working out what they think on the issue, because it isn’t going away. Truss is thick as mince but there’s a live political issue where she can currently make Labour look like fantasists. I wonder if Labour will stop telling people not to talk about it and work out a coherent position? I wouldn’t bet money on it, when Dawn Butler has publicly said “babies are born without a sex” and Stella Creasy says “I’m one of those women who believe women can have a penis”

‘Conversation starter’

Sunak or Truss leading the Tories won’t win the next general election . People have slagged off Boris but never in a hundred years would any other Tory leader win an 80 seat majority

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:02 pm Truss will have the right wing papers behind her, and Sunak will have to contend with smears and lies, just like Penny did.
Not sure I can see the Tory faithful electing a brown skinned man either.
Truss is so terrible, I can even see Starmer making mincemeat of her in 2 years time

What is it with the left. Tories have now had (if Truss wins) 3 women leaders and Kemi Badenoch (black women) was conservative home(the members) favourite candidate. She would have beaten all the others if in the final 2. An Indian is in the final two. When Labour pluck up the courage to appoint a women leader (40 + years after Thatcher) get back to us. Meanwhile you and matey above need to zippy.

Truss or Sunak is a disaster and we are almost certain to get a Labour government. Tories by not electing Badenoch have just consigned themselves to years in the political wilderness. Oh well, how bad can Labour be… don’t answer that.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:53 pm Sunak or Truss leading the Tories won’t win the next general election . People have slagged off Boris but never in a hundred years would any other Tory leader win an 80 seat majority

The 80 seat majority has more to do with Brexit, with Labour being further left than the electorate were willing to consider voting for, and Labour stupidly giving Johnson the general election he wanted, when he wanted it, than to do with any great Johnson traits.

I do look forward to the PHD phesis conclusions that explains why white men seem to constantly rule the Labour Party (Burnham next favourite). Whilst the Tories have a competition where they had zero chance... Again and will elect their third non white geezer.

I imagine it's because they're hardwired committed to meritocracy within in the party but it's quite interesting, to me at least.

Truss will probably win but I think it'll be closer than the current polls show, primarily because Truss is further right than Rishi and the Tory members are still somewhat loyal to Boris, who has had a few digs at Rishi. Rishi hammered the final nail in Boris's coffin with his resignation as chancellor.

The idea that Tory members won't vote for Rishi because he has brown skin is ridiculous, but shows how much identity politics is ingrained in some people.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:57 pm I do look forward to the PHD phesis conclusions that explains why white men seem to constantly rule the Labour Party (Burnham next favourite). Whilst the Tories have a competition where they had zero chance... Again and will elect their third non white geezer.

I imagine it's because they're hardwired committed to meritocracy within in the party but it's quite interesting, to me at least.

Yet to have a NON WHITE leader of the T*RY party .

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:34 pm Daily Mail want Truss, go Lizzy.

They want Truss because she is just an empty space. Even the Russians had a laugh when she, as the Foreign Secretary for the UK government didn't have a clue about the location of a certain Russian city, assuming that it is in Ukraine.
She solely exists for the opportunities to pretend 'being somebody important'. (Dressing up in Thatcher style, posing in a tank or with a globe, etc. etc - using photographers paid for by public funds to try and create her image).
She is craven and ignorant like Johnson but has none of the bluster, personality or "charm".

That makes her a very easy object for manipulation. Even in 2 years she can do a lot of damage to the country and none of the Tory MPs will murmur.
Party before country as always!

Will she be so wholehearted in support of Ukraine in this war? I have my doubts.
"Wholehearted support for Ukraine" served Johnson's objective in creating a beneficial image for himself, hoping that this could wash over all his other failings. Having listened to the number of dopes (in the HoC and general public) it worked for him.
Truss will have to await instructiuons from her handlers.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:57 pm I do look forward to the PHD phesis conclusions that explains why white men seem to constantly rule the Labour Party (Burnham next favourite). Whilst the Tories have a competition where they had zero chance... Again and will elect their third non white geezer.

I imagine it's because they're hardwired committed to meritocracy within in the party but it's quite interesting, to me at least.

It's a lot more complex than white male or other.
Badenoch's rise into the final 4 Tory contenders was not because of her gender or race. She appealed to the Tory MPs for her views that others would regard as akin to Enoch.

E10EU wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:11 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:57 pm I do look forward to the PHD phesis conclusions that explains why white men seem to constantly rule the Labour Party (Burnham next favourite). Whilst the Tories have a competition where they had zero chance... Again and will elect their third non white geezer.

I imagine it's because they're hardwired committed to meritocracy within in the party but it's quite interesting, to me at least.

It's a lot more complex than white male or other.
Badenoch's rise into the final 4 Tory contenders was not because of her gender or race. She appealed to the Tory MPs for her views that others would regard as akin to Enoch.

Mrs B rise was simply down to her being a career politician, coupled with an over rated ego.

She barely represents her constituents (me!), visiting only sporadically from her home in Wimbledon and publishing bog-standard government replies to local issues (eg over development of Stansted Airport and new housing of a nature out of tune with local needs); to represent a nation is wholly beyond her.

E10EU wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:11 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:57 pm I do look forward to the PHD phesis conclusions that explains why white men seem to constantly rule the Labour Party (Burnham next favourite). Whilst the Tories have a competition where they had zero chance... Again and will elect their third non white geezer.

I imagine it's because they're hardwired committed to meritocracy within in the party but it's quite interesting, to me at least.

It's a lot more complex than white male or other.
Badenoch's rise into the final 4 Tory contenders was not because of her gender or race. She appealed to the Tory MPs for her views that others would regard as akin to Enoch.

Do explain how the British Nigerian lady is akin to Enoch Powell?

This should be good

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:28 am

E10EU wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:11 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:57 pm I do look forward to the PHD phesis conclusions that explains why white men seem to constantly rule the Labour Party (Burnham next favourite). Whilst the Tories have a competition where they had zero chance... Again and will elect their third non white geezer.

I imagine it's because they're hardwired committed to meritocracy within in the party but it's quite interesting, to me at least.

It's a lot more complex than white male or other.
Badenoch's rise into the final 4 Tory contenders was not because of her gender or race. She appealed to the Tory MPs for her views that others would regard as akin to Enoch.

Do explain how the British Nigerian lady is akin to Enoch Powell?

This should be good

Still no non white Tory leader yet , But Labour does Have an Asian Muslim Mayor .

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:28 am

E10EU wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:11 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:57 pm I do look forward to the PHD phesis conclusions that explains why white men seem to constantly rule the Labour Party (Burnham next favourite). Whilst the Tories have a competition where they had zero chance... Again and will elect their third non white geezer.

I imagine it's because they're hardwired committed to meritocracy within in the party but it's quite interesting, to me at least.

It's a lot more complex than white male or other.
Badenoch's rise into the final 4 Tory contenders was not because of her gender or race. She appealed to the Tory MPs for her views that others would regard as akin to Enoch.

Do explain how the British Nigerian lady is akin to Enoch Powell?

This should be good

Read again, sausage. I said

She appealed to the Tory MPs for her views that others would regard as akin to Enoch.

Liz Truss " I was wrong to back Brexit " A vote grab by the non white leader backers Currie ?

E10EU wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:24 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:28 am

E10EU wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:11 am

It's a lot more complex than white male or other.
Badenoch's rise into the final 4 Tory contenders was not because of her gender or race. She appealed to the Tory MPs for her views that others would regard as akin to Enoch.

Do explain how the British Nigerian lady is akin to Enoch Powell?

This should be good

Read again, sausage. I said

She appealed to the Tory MPs for her views that others would regard as akin to Enoch.

So you don't personally think her views are akin to Enoch Powell's? You just thought you'd make the comparison anyway?

Don't forget she advocated that the UK supply fighter planes to Ukraine in order to shoot down Russian planes,
I wonder what Putin's reaction would have been to that.

Oh god, someone stop her from doing photoshoots.

If we promise to make her leader, will she promise to stop this? I think I'm just about ready to agree to anything.

She's basically a sh*t tribute act.

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:40 pm If Labour can’t beat Truss or Sunak, then they might as well give up

Unless the SNP vote collapses north of the border, for Labour to win a parliamentary majority they will have to win seats in England that they didn't even manage in 1997. The loss of those Scottish seats and the scale of the 2019 defeat cannot be underestimated. No Party has ever come back from that kind of defeat to win the next election. A 2024 election majority win for Labour has always been, and remains, an unlikely prospect.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:09 am Oh god, someone stop her from doing photoshoots.

If we promise to make her leader, will she promise to stop this? I think I'm just about ready to agree to anything.

Top one, my new avatar

I like what she has to say

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:09 am Oh god, someone stop her from doing photoshoots.

If we promise to make her leader, will she promise to stop this? I think I'm just about ready to agree to anything.

I've assumed this position in a French toilet quite recently.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:25 am

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:40 pm If Labour can’t beat Truss or Sunak, then they might as well give up

Unless the SNP vote collapses north of the border, for Labour to win a parliamentary majority they will have to win seats in England that they didn't even manage in 1997. The loss of those Scottish seats and the scale of the 2019 defeat cannot be underestimated. No Party has ever come back from that kind of defeat to win the next election. A 2024 election majority win for Labour has always been, and remains, an unlikely prospect.

I agree - maybe I didn’t phrase it right. What I mean is that there is unlikely to be a better chance for Labour to get back into power than against one of these two. The Tories might be in disarray now but they’ll sort it before too long, I imagine.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:25 am

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:40 pm If Labour can’t beat Truss or Sunak, then they might as well give up

Unless the SNP vote collapses north of the border, for Labour to win a parliamentary majority they will have to win seats in England that they didn't even manage in 1997. The loss of those Scottish seats and the scale of the 2019 defeat cannot be underestimated. No Party has ever come back from that kind of defeat to win the next election. A 2024 election majority win for Labour has always been, and remains, an unlikely prospect.

What if Scotland's out of the picture by then? PM Truss can hardly get in the way of 10% or so of Scottish voters changing their minds and now wanting independence can she? You can't say "once you voted for one thing you can't want the opposite" - given her campaigning against Brexit and now advocating for a diamond-hard Brexit. Despite being Lib Dem, and now Tory.

So if Scotland wasn't in the WM parliament, does that make it easier or harder for English Labour to win in WM?